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Roostertail Talk
A show dedicated for preserving the history, breaking down the racing and looking to the future of the incredible sport of Unlimited Hydroplane racing. My name is David Newton, and I will be bringing you a weekly show in which we will discuss the boats, drivers, owners, crew members, legends, fans and anything that is involved with the sport that I love; hydroplane racing.
Fans you can now sign up for a subscription service for the podcast! As you can imagine, running a podcast can be pricey (from hosting fees, website fees, travel, equipment, etc.). You can help the podcast by subscribing to our new service, Roostertail Talk+. The podcast is still free to all on our website and through all major podcast platforms (such as Apple Podcast, Spotify, Castbox, etc) but with Roostertail Talk+ there is more you can enjoy ! With this service you will get early links to new episodes, enjoy access to extra content, raffle prizes and more. This is a new service that we will be adding to as we move along. As always your support to make this show grow is very appreciated! TOMORROW, there will be an announcement for the first prize for subscribing to Roostertail Talk+.
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Roostertail Talk
Episode 140: John Walters, Part 1
Few have shaped the world of hydroplane racing like John Walters. In part 1 of this captivating conversation, we dive deep into the remarkable journey of a legend whose impact spans more than five decades of boat racing evolution. For anyone fascinated by the intersection of human determination, mechanical innovation, and the pursuit of excellence, John Walters' journey embodies the very soul of hydroplane racing. Make sure to tune in next week to continue the conversation with John in part 2!
Help the podcast by subscribing to our new service, Roostertail Talk+. The podcast is still free to all on our website and through all major podcast platforms (such as Apple Podcast, Spotify, Castbox, etc) but with Roostertail Talk+ there is more you can enjoy ! With this service you will get early links to new episodes, enjoy access to extra content, raffle prizes and more. This is a new service that we will be adding to as we move along. As always your support to make this show grow is very appreciated! https://www.buzzsprout.com/434851/supporters/new
Rooster Tail Talk, the podcast dedicated to everything about the sport that we all love. Hi, dr Plain Reese. I am your host, david Newton, and it's time once again. So sit back, relax and welcome to Rooster Tail Talk. Dale Topp. Hello race fans, welcome back to the show. We're on to episode 140. And, joining for this episode and the next few, I'm talking with John Walters.
Speaker 1:Now John Walters is a legend of the sport and many people know his background from his pain-packed days because he made a name for himself in the sport driving one of the first turbine-powered unlimited hydroplanes. But he got the first victory for a turbine unlimited hydroplane back in the early 80s over 40 years ago, which seems like a lifetime ago. But he has been hard at work since then and long before that time around the sport of hydroplanes and really has given a lot to the sport and propelled a lot of things for the further advancement and finding more speed in the boats. He's built many boats over the years and I think you're going to learn a lot about John if you don't know him that well, how much of a passion he has for hydroplane racing but how much he has given back to the sport. Now, when I talk to people that aren't familiar with hydroplane racing. I think some have a stereotype that it's kind of a backyard build a boat and there's not a lot of smarts required in the sport, as it's not a. It's a high, highly paid gig. It's not well financed and it's not as pristine to some as some would say, like formula one racing is. But it takes a lot of smarts to do what these people do in building the boats, driving the boats, working on them, and John Walters exemplifies the intellect needed to do well in the sport and he is such a smart man and he's like.
Speaker 1:You're going to come away with some great behind the scenes stories from John. I really love talking with him. It's been a highly requested interview for some time and just hasn't happened yet. But I'm really excited to get this out and share this interview with you because I could just sit here and probably listen to him talk for hours on end.
Speaker 1:He's got so many great insight to the sport of racing, but if I can only hone some of his knowledge in the sport, it's just so fascinating to hear him talk about all the different aspects of the sport. I'm not going to bore you much more with his background, because we're going to talk about his background into hydroplane racing In the early years for him, before he was an unlimited driver. He raced for many years starting outboards and inboards, and you're going to hear more about his backgrounds and how he started to work for some different hydroplane racing teams, as well as Ron Jones. So let's get into that interview and listen to part one of my chat with John Walters. Well, I'm sitting down here in my boat room, my office, for Rooster Tail Talk and I'm talking via Zoom with John Walters. John, how are you today?
Speaker 2:You know I'm pretty okay, david I. You know I'm a little bit snowbound here. We got a bunch more snow yesterday and I spent a fair amount of time pushing some of it around with the snowplow. But you know it's it's not horribly cold, it's beautiful and and I and I get and I beautiful and I'm just good, I'm just okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, all right. Well, glad to have you on here and hopefully the snow will subside for you. Over on my side of the mountains, the snow has stopped and we're above 40 degrees now, so it's almost summertime in Seattle.
Speaker 2:There you go. We were between 5 and 8 below zero most of the days last week, so it was really cold and I'm in a very remote area, surrounded on three sides by the Okanagan National Forest, on top of Cocoa Mountain at about 4,000 feet in elevation. So spring comes late here and fall comes early, comes early, um, but uh, um, you know I pretty much like all the seasons and um, and pretty well prepared to deal with, um, you know, just about anything that mother nature can throw at me, and I'm not asking you that as as as you know any kind of a threat or uh.
Speaker 2:You know any kind of a, uh, I'll show you. So, yeah, yeah all right.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm excited to have you on here and I know diehard hydropine fans know your name and know your contributions you've given to the sport over the many years. But not everyone knows how things began for the drivers, crew members and people around the sport. For you, where did things begin in hydroplane racing for John Walters?
Speaker 2:You know, being born and raised in the Seattle area, I did spend some time back in Ohio after a while, but, being born and raised in the Spokane area and then later in the Seattle area, I was exposed to a lot of different kinds of boat racing. A lot of outboards at different places, here and there, stock outboards which piqued my interest. A lot of outboards at different different places, here and there stock outboards which piqued my interest. But, um, the the, the event that stole my heart was the diamond cup in Lake Coeur d'Alene, and, and I want to say it was 1963. Uh, it was either 1962 or 1963. I was nine years old, um, and uh, just absolutely crazy over the boats. Mean, everything that I saw, um, you know, made me want to be part of this sport and, in this sport, to be part of my life. Um, I, um, uh, I hear the story quite often. Unfortunately, I lost my dad about a year ago, um, and he was a big part of of my life and my boat racing career, of course. And, um, you know, I I told my parents on the way home, uh, in the backseat of the car, at nine years old. Geez, when I grow up, that's what I want to do, and I'm sure that every little nine year, nine and 10 year old boy in the pits that day said the same thing Um, but I meant it. And um I.
Speaker 2:I went to school with the intent of learning the things that could help me to race boats when I got older. And so I was always interested in the science and the engineering classes and the math classes and the things that could help me with that. I took every shop class I could, whether it was metal or woodworking or all of those sort of things, again, you know, hoping that I would be able to, you know, apply those skills later in my soon to come, you know, boat racing career. And so, you know, by the time I was 10 years old, I was hooked to the point that, you know. I told my dad I really wanted to do this and, you know, was familiar with the JSTOC class at that point and my dad made me an offer and said all right, you come up with the money and I'll match whatever, whatever you come up with, and we'll go buy some equipment. I found a, an AB class Swift hydro at a secondhand store in Burien, washington, and it was had been there for some time. I told the guy my story, what I wanted to do. I started, you know, washing dogs and washing cars and returning pop bottles and whatever I it had been there for some time. I told the guy my story, what I wanted to do. I started washing dogs and washing cars and returning pop bottles and whatever I could do to make some money. And I started making payments on the thing. My dad, when I got to half of it, my dad went in and paid for the other half and we brought home a Swift Hydro that we put a J-stock engine on and the deal was dad said you know, you got to play with this thing, but we'll go to the lake every weekend. We'll get a bunch of time on it. I really want you to be familiar with it before before we enter the first race. And so so we did that and and I got the opportunity to to run J stock later on A and B stock.
Speaker 2:By that point in time my grandparents, who live back in the Ohio area, were getting pretty old and having a difficult time keeping up with their business and, just you know, life in general, and so we would go back there to visit with my dad's parents help them with things. And it seemed like every year we went back, we stayed a little longer till eventually we ended up moving back there for a short period of time. And in Region 6, it was a little more difficult. In Region 10 here, apba, as everybody knows, divides up into regions Region 10 in Washington and Oregon, idaho, part of California there were races every weekend, you know very close, and we could go run just about anytime we wanted to.
Speaker 2:Um in region six, um, there were races in pennsylvania or maybe west virginia or kentucky or whatever, and sometimes it was an eight or ten hour drive. You know each direction to get there. So, um, so I was a little bit limited in in the number of races that I could run, uh, there, but my dad, being my dad, um was very supportive and, and you know, did whatever we could do and ran as many as we could. So that's where it all started and you know, just a whole lot of things obviously happened between here and there, as I had mentioned to you earlier. I'm trying not to let you know too many secrets out here.
Speaker 2:I've been working on writing this book for about almost eight years now, which I think is literally weeks away from going to the printer, and all of these stories and I'm sure everything that you and I are going to talk about today, are in the book in far more detail. So hopefully it'll be out soon and it's going to be. Rusty Ray, a dear friend and photojournalist, is helping me with it. It's been really fun working with Rusty again. Rusty was the PR director for Pay and Pack in the days that I was driving the boat there.
Speaker 2:So a lot of these you know stories and a lot of these experiences we did together and it was, it's been very interesting to you know, to go back and reminisce with with some of that stuff, but it'll be titled racing through time a lot of time with John and Arlene Walter. So, um, I, um, um, I'm real anxious to get it out there and and uh, and let everybody you know hear this story. I think there's a an awful lot of things in the book that people are going to be very interested in. There's a lot of behind the scenes stuff and a lot of stuff that, um, that that people don't know about conversations that took place and why we did certain things and why we didn't do other things. So there you go, it'll be fun.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm looking forward to that and hopefully your stories today can be a tease for your book and not just give everything away. And I'll keep asking questions, but you can stop yourself when you deem fit. But when should we expect this book to be released for public?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm hoping that, with you know, as long as it takes to get it printed, rusty's about ready. I think we've finally got all the details worked out and everything sorted out. We had a few problems here and there. Some of the just about every image and there's like 300 pictures in the book they all got scanned in the wrong format and so the printers couldn't do what we wanted to do there without, you know, re-scanning all the photos. So Rusty, bless his heart, has been, you know, going through redoing all of the images. I think we've finally gotten all of the copyright stuff done and all of the thank yous to the other photojournalists and people that we've borrowed photographs and things and stories and things from, and so I'm hoping that within the next 14 days or so it's going to be off to the printers and then, as quickly as they can get it done, I can start promoting it and do some advanced sales and actually turn it into a book, and I'm pretty excited about it and pretty nervous at the same time.
Speaker 1:Well, that's a big deal, and I love to hear that you're giving some background information that the general fans may not have access to and that's part of my podcast, too is there's so many great stories out there that need to be preserved and shared, so I'd love to hear that. But getting back to your driving days and I heard what you did you start with J stock. You started. I know you started in outboard racings, but was J stock your first time? I did start with J stock.
Speaker 2:I ran, yeah ran J stock for a while and then and then A stock outboard. Um, I probably spent most time in in a B stock outboards. I ended up driving uh other boats for other people at different times in different classes, here and there, and was always looking to try and add to the experience. And every time I drove a different boat I learned something. Sometimes it was things I didn't you know, I'd never thought about, and sometimes it was things I didn't want to know. But but, but it was still that that experience and and my, my career all the way through the limited inboards in that too was that same sort of same sort of situation.
Speaker 2:I started repairing a lot of boats for people that were crashed or broken or had handling problems. A lot of the boats that I drove and later got to be very successful in some of those boats were boats that other guys didn't want to drive. I drove boats that people got thrown out of different, you know, thrown out of, you know, different times, different drivers at different times, for different reasons. And you know we'd get the call every now and again that, hey, you know, I've got this boat here that's got some handling issues. Would you mind taking a look, or maybe going for a ride, and you know several of those were fun projects to be able to go through and sort out what the issues were, make some changes, see some success there and Dale Van Waringen's five-liter Just Curious was one of those.
Speaker 2:When that boat came out the very first race, tim Johnson that owned it when it was new got thrown out of the thing and span away. They made a few changes in it and in the next race he got pitched out of it again and it got to be a boat that was, it was very fast, but uh, but had some handling issues and and uh, when dale bought it, uh, we ended up, uh, making some several changes and it changed the steering in it to, um, you know, cable steering and got rid of some of the uh, the highman's and and the push pull tubes and things that were there. Those things kind of wear out over time, time and you get a little bit of slop and some slack in the things and the sponsons. You know Ron Jones was doing some different things with the sponsons at that point in time and so I went back to what I knew worked and we tore the sponsons off of that boat, put it all back together, ran it a couple of years as a five-liter and I don't think I ever lost a race in it. Years as a five liter and I don't think I ever lost a race in it.
Speaker 2:Uh, mike jones's uh boat, the the buccaneer, that he got from john leach, that thing was a rocket ship when uh 280, when, when he first got it and over the years different people had made some changes in it. Uh, some things had worn out, some things.
Speaker 2:You know the technology had gotten better but didn't get changed, and the same sort of thing. Um, you know, I made a few changes in that boat. We went out and enjoyed, you know, just an extreme amount of success with Mike Jones in that boat, easy Racer, and again, I don't think I ever lost a race in it. By that point in time I was starting to, you know, drive some unlimited stuff and could only, you know, compete here and there at races. But, man, it was fun. I remember in those days, you know, going to, uh, you know, different races and especially in the two 80 class, and there'd be 20 or 22 boats show up and there'd be, you know, five elimination heats, you know, and and, uh, you know, it was just crazy and so much fun and, um, and I think that was, you know, some of the. The most fun for me was was taking boats that, um, that hadn't enjoyed very much success and and turning them into into winners.
Speaker 1:So it was a lot of fun yeah, it sounds like that boat has a special place in your heart, then, it does both of them do um and uh, and then several, uh, several other boats.
Speaker 2:I, I, I drove a, a 98 cubic inch class for dick black, um, but it was called umphalus, which for my hippie friends out there will will know my yoga friends and that that are out there will know that that means uh, meditation while gazing at your navel, and uh, uh, and, and he built, they built three of them, um, uh, uh, there was, they were all 98s. The 98 class was so much fun because they were, you know, 14, I think, long boats. You know highly modified engines. We ran a little, you know 98 cubic inch four cylinder BMW. And you know fuel injected on alcohol at record courses like Green Lake and Black Lake and some of those. We could run nitromethane, we could run nitrous oxide. You could do just about anything to them, but they had to be naturally aspirated. You couldn't run a blower, it was about the only thing that you couldn't do with them. And Jack Felpott had the red version of it.
Speaker 2:I drove the blue one and Jack always seemed to win and several different people had driven that boat and a couple of them had had crashed it. Uh, trying to win. Um, again, we went in May. Just a couple of changes went back out and and, and I started winning and started beating Jack on a pretty regular basis. And, um, and so, uh, one day, you know, jack comes to me and he says, hey, would you want, would you do me a favor? And I said, yeah, just about anything, jack, what would you like to do? And he said, let's trade boats this weekend. Um, he says I used to beat, I used to beat that, that blue boat you know, on pretty regular basis. Um, and he said, and now I can't beat you, Um, and he said I said, okay, you know, I'm willing to do that. So we did that.
Speaker 2:The first heat I won in the red boat and came back and Jack was a little bit surprised and he said, well, obviously it's me, you know, because now you beat me in both boats, me in both boats, and so I don't remember exactly what all changes had been made. But I told him, you know, the only thing that I can feel, you know, wrong with the red boat, that's different than the blue boat, is there's a lot of play in the steering and I find myself, you know, kind of chasing myself, you know, going down the straightaways with it. And so we made a couple of changes in the steering system, tighten things up a little bit. And then, um, and so we made a couple of changes in the steering system, um, tighten things up a little bit, um, and then I think both boats were were fairly equal, um, I think that, uh, you know, we, we, we each won our share of races and then, you know, turned into some of those, uh, you know, unlimited type duels with the pay and pack Budweiser, whoever got the inside was going to win, uh and uh, and so a lot of times the race was really, you know, during the five minute gun and and and and, scoring up for the start to see who could get get the inside lane.
Speaker 2:So, a lot of fun, a lot of fun. And boy, I learned so much, you know, racing against those kinds of guys, and and, of course, I was a lot younger and and in those days and got to race against guys that had a lot more experience and and and, honestly, a lot more skills than me in those days, and it was just so much fun to just be part of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I believe around that time in the 1970s though, you got to professionally work for Ron Jones yes, and you started to build boats with him, repair boats. Could you talk about those early days and how you got that job and just how many boats did you build with Ron Jones?
Speaker 2:Gosh, it was 1974. It was the end of 1973 when I ended up going there and this story is in the book. I ended up being hired by Ron Jones. I was living in Ohio at the time. My wife, Arlene, and I had just gotten married. I say this as kind of a joke, but it was the honest to goodness truth on a dare. Basically, we had dated for two years.
Speaker 2:We were 15 years old when we met, dated for a couple of years and after two years, at a barbecue at Arlene's parents' house on Memorial day weekend, we got pulled aside and the conversation started out with John we really like you, Um, and that usually, you know, means that, oh, you know, there's about to be a problem here. And, uh, we really like you, but, uh, we just think that you guys are seeing way too much of each other and we and we'd like to see other people do other things and do you know, you'll be, be a little bit more, spend time, you know, doing other things. You're, you're together all the time. Of course, Arlene and I felt that we were, you know, absolutely in love with each other. A match made in heaven, told her parents whatever they wanted to hear, I suppose, and then went off to do.
Speaker 2:You know, continue to do what we wanted to do. So later on, you know at the end of the summer, then at the Labor Day picnic, got pulled aside again and said hey, you know we had a conversation here earlier and you know it turns out that that you guys are spending more time together than you were before. And so here's the deal. We think you're a bad influence on Arlene. And they had moved back to Ohio from California, southern California. Arlene's dad was in the aerospace industry and he was doing civilian work for the Air Force there. As I had mentioned, my dad was in the Air Force earlier and he joined up in Ohio, got transferred to Fairchild Air Force Base in Spokane where he met my mom and I was born at Fairchild Air Force Base, and so now we're 2,400 miles away back in Ohio. There Arlene and I meet in high school and now the deal is you guys either have to get married or we're going to send Arlene back to California to live with her aunt. Honestly, I expected to get kicked to the curb at that point. Arlene loved the California lifestyle. She did not like it so much in Ohio. She loved her aunt Nancy there in California and I honestly figured that that was probably going to be the end of John and Arlene. As it turned out it was not and we elected to get married and even in Ohio, with Arlene not being pregnant, even with parents' consent, we couldn't get married at that age. My birthday's on January 27th. We got married on February 21st, and so we've got an anniversary coming up here in a few days. But you know that that three week difference, where that's how long I'd been 17 years old. My 17th birthday was, you know, january 27th and so we ended up, you know, getting married and I literally had been, you know, 17 years old for like three weeks. We we were married for 47 years until I lost Arlene here a few years ago, unfortunately to a suicide, and actually, david that's part of the reason that I started writing the book was to bring attention to that kind of behavior and mental health issues and suicide, and a portion of the proceeds from this after the book does indeed make any money is going to go, with Scott Hanauer's help, chip's brother to helping suicide prevention and helping people with mental health issues, and we've made so much progress since the loss of Arlene. I feel so badly and I'm going to struggle to not have to have tears in my eyes here as I still miss her and wish that there was something that we could have done and so many, so much stuff that we know now that could have been applicable then. So we got married.
Speaker 2:I was doing repairs on on a couple of boats that were crashed in Region 6. Back there that were Ron Jones boats. I needed a drawing and I needed a little bit of help and I called and asked us to talk with Ron. His shop was in Costa Mesa, california at the time, entitled Ron Jones Marine Engineering, and we talked for a long time on the phone. He was just wonderful, was willing to spend the time with me, was very detail-oriented and gave me all the help that I needed. And somewhere along the line I don't honestly remember if he asked me or if he asked me if I was interested in coming to work there or if I asked him, but somehow we got on that subject and I remember his answer was you cannot get here soon enough.
Speaker 2:And so I went back. We talked, arlene and I talked about it. We packed up the belongings and things that we had in a 6240 Conaline van towing, a 67 big block Mustang behind it with all of our stuff in it and our two children at the time, big block Mustang behind it with all of our stuff in it and our two children at the time, katrina and McIver, were very young and moved to Costa Mesa, california. We built four Unlimiteds that winter. It was Value Mart, lincoln, thrift, the Miss US and the Country Boy that was for the Walters. Um, they took, um, they received it. It was set up to be an automotive powered boat.
Speaker 2:Um, it was never ran and it was a cab over automotive powered boat. It was never run in that configuration. Uh, bernie little ended up buying it, uh, made a conventional out of it and ended up being a Ms Budweiser, and so I had the opportunity to do so many things there and learned so much. We were just getting into the honeycomb aluminum boats in those days. All four of those boats were honeycomb. Of course, the 73 Pay Impact was the first honeycomb boat and that boat had just left the shop when I got there and the U-95 was just leaving the shop as I got there. And um, and the U 95 was just leaving the shop as as I got there, and uh, we built several limited class boats um that were honeycomb aluminum a two 84, um, uh, al Curtis uh called the gladiator.
Speaker 2:Um, there was a honeycomb boat but it also had what we were calling a steerable strut on it. It was like a stern drive, um, and uh, man, the thing was awesome. And and when, when it worked it was unbeatable. Um, the problem was that with the stern drive, uh, couldn't come up with you joints, um, that would hold up for the angle of deflection and the horsepower and the torque and the different things and, and uh, and it broke more times than than it finished, unfortunately, um and uh.
Speaker 2:So, al, after a year or so of frustration, uh, seeing all the potential that was there but just not being able to utilize it, uh, and really wanted to race the boat and be more consistent with it, um, it got converted to a more conventional, you know propeller shaft and um, uh, and that, um, we built a, um, a honeycomb, seven liter for john leach, uh, the buccaneer, two, a lot of wood boats, uh, were still still being built in those days. Some people that weren't real sure if this honeycomb thing was going to work or not, and obviously it did quite well. And so it was a big, big experience for me and so much fun. So many amazing people came through that shop Owners of boats, drivers of boats. I got the great opportunity to work with Ted Jones on a couple of projects and so, yeah, just so much fun. Man, it was cool. Somebody needs to make a movie at this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's one thing I never really stopped to think about, like back in Ron Jones' shop his heyday, like just so many unique characters and just so many just big names in the sport probably walked through those doors and that's awesome to hear. You got a chance to work with those names. Oh man, yeah, yeah, that's big.
Speaker 2:And we did a lot of things. I mean every class of limited inboards. Yeah, we built an offshore boat for Betty Cook, a huge, big catamaran called Kudu. It was a honeycomb boat as well and Ron was always on the leading edge, cutting edge of technology, always trying to make the boats better. And unfortunately, I think that was part of his downfall is that, you know, as the boats got more and more expensive, you know people either didn't want to afford or couldn't afford the new technology and the different things. And a lot of times you know we did. You know boats that that Ron lost money on just so that he could, you know, help a friend or or help and, and even the ones that we didn't necessarily lose money on didn't make any money on it and and so a lot of times you know, it was just a real losing situation financially. And Ron was a much better friend than he was, you know, a businessman and I don't think he ever told anybody no and there was always so much pride in a Ron Jones boat.
Speaker 2:You know there were so many extra steps that a lot of people that were building boats in the days didn't take.
Speaker 2:I remember, you know, when in the wood. When I was building wood boats, you know you'd get the bottom and everything all done, get all the deck battens and everything on, get it all fared in and before you know we put the deck on it. You know we'd sand and varnish and spray the last coat inside and it looked like you know furniture inside there. And then we take newspapers and lay newspapers down everywhere so that the glue when it dripped off the sides didn't stick on the bottom of the boat. And then you know you'd have to go back in later after the deck was on, through the pie, high covers and deck hatches and that sort of thing, and pull all the newspapers and stuff out. And that way, if anybody ever looked in there for any reason, it literally looked like furniture, they were beautiful and those things all cost money and of course Ron didn't charge extra for any of that and so, like I say a lot of times, it was a losing situation as far as the bottom line is concerned.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow. Well, yeah, he was definitely a proponent for the sport and wanted to see things succeed and it grow. Yes, um but I know around that time you were also crewing for some teams and I heard a story you were crewing for red, the red band team. Yeah uh, the boat had some handling issues and you got. Did you get a chance to get into the cockpit and test it to kind of maneuver some of those things and figure out?
Speaker 2:I did. Can you talk about that?
Speaker 1:I did, and that's another one of the points that are in the book.
Speaker 2:In Guntersville that year McCormick and the guys had taken the Walther boat that was the Country Boy, taken the Merlin out of it and put a turbocharged Atlas in it and and the boat was just a rocket ship. And down the straightaways Ron had it set up where it ran quite a bit downhill. It never got loose, it never got free and I went as a consultant basically to Guntersville just to kind of observe what was going on. They wanted Ron to go and he was just so busy at the shop he couldn't go and I got the great pleasure to be able to go and would communicate with Ron every evening on the telephone about, you know what was going on Lots of fog, lots of lots of weather issues. But it was a new ignition system. The boots, mallory was, was involved with them on the Mallory ignition stuff and a lot of problems with the distributor caps and things that were, you know, moving around and the thing would misfire and drop a cylinder. Two, hillborn was there and working on the Hillborn, you know, fuel injection stuff, trying to get things set up and the weather was changing faster than they could change the pills and you know, get the boat set up right and, as I remember pills and, and you know, get the boat set up Right. And, as I remember, um, we made several runs over three days at 189 to 190 miles an hour on 11 cylinders, you know, backed it up both ways, both ways back and forth, and and uh, and never could get, you know, to play on all 12 cylinders and uh, so left there a little bit disappointed but learned an awful lot about uh, different things. Uh got to Miami late, of course, and the boat was still set up with the straightaway record stuff, a very shallow skid fin, a very shallow rudder set up to go in a straight line. Jim wanted to get the boat in the water against everybody's better judgment. You know, let's wait till tomorrow, give us tonight to, you know, get the boat turned around and and make things better. He decided, nope, let's just get it in the show and then we'll make the changes.
Speaker 2:And for those that are old enough to remember, jim went storming into the first turn in Miami there on that little race course. It unhooked the skid fin, spun around and pitched him out and when he got thrown out of the boat, his legs and feet and things got tangled up underneath the dash and things on the way out ended up with something like 300 stitches On top of that. I don't know whether you know, and he didn't tell anybody. He didn't expect that he was ever going to get hurt. You know like that, but Jim was a hemophiliac. Once he started bleeding they couldn't stop the bleeding and he darned their blood to death before they could get him to the hospital. Stitches in his legs to get him put back together and of course, he ended up, um, still wanting to drive but had to go through a long healing process.
Speaker 2:And so we had several different drivers in the boat at different times and and uh, uh, and there was some pretty substantial uh damage that was going to happen to the boat later on when, uh, when Skip Walther was asked to drive the boat, that was another confusing situation and controversial. A lot of people didn't think that Skip had the qualifications and the experience to drive the boat. His brother, Salt, being one of the biggest proponents, absolutely don't put him in the boat and Salt didn't want to drive it himself. David didn't want to drive it himself, but Skip had some experience in some five liters and and for, for whatever reason I I didn't have any any part of. I really wasn't part of the team and really didn't have any influence in in who was going to drive it. I was just there as an observer and and Skip ended up in the boat and and I honestly I don't think any fault of Skip Poulter, I firmly believe that he had a manatee and it ripped the transom out of the boat.
Speaker 2:That thing was built like a tank and I mean it ripped half inch thick aluminum angles that were in the corner of the rudder brackets, you know, ripped that stuff completely out of the transom. The engine stringers were two, three quarter inch nine ply plywood, you know, bonded together with aluminum skin on the inside of that for the engine compartment and all Tore that apart like a phone book. And when all that stuff came off, when the rudder and everything came off, of course the engine was still running the boat went into a big flat, spin left-hand spin, pitch, skip out. Unfortunately, when he rolled off the deck he got hit by the boat and did not survive. So the boat was in very bad shape. The team was in even worse shape.
Speaker 2:Off to Costa Mesa, california. They go with the boat, as it turns out, several other boats, the four new boats that we had built that winter boats um the four, the four new boats that we had built that winter um, all had um roller bearings, uh, and ball bearings in the rudder brackets, uh, rather than just the standard bushings that everyone else had been trying to run and run in an effort to try and get the boats to turn easier, uh, make all that stuff work a little bit better. Um, it was a good idea in theory. Uh, unfortunately, the saltwater and those bell bearings and things didn't work well together and they would try to rust and seize up and cause problems. And I mean in minutes you could watch the things rust in the saltwater environment there, and they just weren't sealed up well enough to be able to do that.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, there were a couple of other mishaps the Value Mart ended up spinning out and Ron Armstrong that was driving it got pitched out of it.
Speaker 2:And the Lincoln Thrift and the Miss US had some, some rudder issues and problems and we're actually there was some consideration about, you know, those boats not being and actually I'm getting way ahead of myself here- but it was actually some legal issues with that, and I don't even remember if it was unlimited unanimous or what the unlimited class was calling themselves in those days that those boats were going to be banned at the next race, and that was in 1974. So, this was the beginning of the of the season there and of the 75, it was a 75 season. No, it was 74. 74. Yeah, 74.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so the boat ended up coming back to Costa Mesa and that was kind of my project. I'd been, I'd been with with the team and and I work on the boat and and that was my project was was, uh, you know, do the repairs and get that thing put back together as um, as legal issues came about and Paul Cook, betty Cook's husband, was kind of a silent partner with Ron and a lot of the money was was, you know, that are through the Cook family and Paul Cook's lawyer said you know, I believe there's going to be some lawsuits over this and you know there was even a fatality and even though you know that rudder didn't come off the boat because of anything that that you know Ron did or any kind of, you know that rudder didn't come off the boat because of anything that that you know Ron did or any kind of you know not designed properly or not maintained properly. In my mind there's no question that it hit something, but still it was considered a rudder failure and with other boats you know having rudder failures and potentially not being able to run the next weekend in Washington DC, there was a lot of issues and a lot of questions and the rumors had gotten around that you know, if this ends up in court, mr Cook is going to be your money that they're going to be taking, and so so Paul Cook and Ron Jones, kind of separated, went different directions. Unfortunately, ron wasn't in a position to be able to take care of that stuff on his own, and every day there were fewer and fewer people at the shop. As a project would get done, um, the boat would leave, and some of the people that were working on it, you know, were leaving too.
Speaker 2:When I first went there, there were probably 25 to 30 people, uh, working at Ron Jones Marine Engineering. Wow, by the time we got the boat done, the other boats were done first the Lincoln Thrift left, first the Miss US left the value mark. All those boats came back. We're there for just, you know, basically inspections. But the only one that really needed an awful lot of work, um, was the boat I was working on was a red man. Um, by the time we got that thing done and ready to go to the next race, which we were hoping was going to be tri cities, that didn't. It didn't get done in time, and and and. So they ended up joining the fleet in Seattle. Um, by that point in time, um, there were three of us left. Um, it was. It was Ron Jones Jr, actually, so four probably. Jr was still there, but he was a 13, 14-year-old kid sweeping the floor working for mom and dad, that sort of thing. Jim Metzner was still there doing the paintwork, bob.
Speaker 1:I'll think of his last name here in a bit.
Speaker 2:I was there doing doing woodworking, and, and myself, and, as the story will go in in the book here, when we got ready to pack up the truck the paint was drying and packing up the truck, um, to get ready to go to Seattle the red man team offered me a job, um, and I was excited about that. You know I had, I had volunteered on several other, uh, you know, unlimited teams at different times, but this was an honest to goodness paying job, um, you know to to be a crew member, a professional crew member, on an unlimited hydroplane. Um, and that's what I went to talk with Ron about it, um and um. I'll never forget you know the smile on his face as, as he put his arm around me and he says, john, I know, you know, we've been talking about this for weeks, uh, you know. And um, and he said, honestly, I don't have anything to offer you. Um, and he says I don't know for sure if I'm even going to have a job once that thing leaves. I think you should take it.
Speaker 2:So I went home, chatted with Arlene about it. We had, you know, we're living in an apartment in Costa Mesa. There we had a first month and last month deposit on the thing and I just paid the rent and decided let's go to a couple of boat races and decide if this is something I really want to do. So so we came to, uh, seattle, went to seattle um and um and ran the seafair race there um 1974. As I remember there were 14 or 15 races we ran there was a good amount of races back then.
Speaker 2:Seattle yeah, we ran in seattle um, then went back, uh, madison had been blown out from a tornado kind of thing, and so we ran in Madison in October. It was cold. I remember it was so cold that we ended up having to build a gasoline primer system to be able to start the engines on gasoline because we couldn't get them to start on the methanol. So we ran Phoenix, arizona, san Diego, jacksonville, florida, and then I think the last one was in Madison that year, and so, yeah, I ended up moving back to Owensboro, kentucky, to be part of the Redman team. It was a good learning experience. I got to do an awful lot of things.
Speaker 2:Your original question was way back when did I get to go for a ride in the boat? And, yes, I did. And again, this story's in the book.
Speaker 2:It was one of the happiest but most embarrassing moments in my life actually and Jerry Bangs was driving the boat. Some weekends Jim McCormick was getting to the point where he wanted to drive the boat. Still, tom Sheehy drove it in Seattle. And none of these guys were the same size. Jerry was quite a bit shorter. Jim McCormick was tall, thin, and so every time somebody else wanted to drive the boat and it seemed like that's all we did all weekend long was just move the seat and the pedals to where people could drive the boat.
Speaker 2:Finally, in San Diego, where I'm underneath holding the wrenches and things to move the seat, with somebody else inside I don't remember, it was one of us, probably where it was being sarcastic and kind of smart, alecky and um, uh, where somebody said something about you're moving the seats and the pedals. How many times do you think we've done this this year? And uh, I said you know, I don't know for sure, but I'm getting really tired of it. You know, this guy drives the boat, that guy drives the boat and I think I could go out there and drive it as good as either of those two are. And I'm not realizing that. Jim McCormick was standing behind me as I'm running my jaw here and he said well, hey, young man, that may not be a bad idea, why don't you put the stuff in there, to where you can reach the pedals? And so you know, bless his heart, I got to go for a ride in the boat, and that was my first time in an unlimited hydroplane. What an eye-opening experience. Like I say, that thing was a rocket ship down the straightaways. It had run 180, 185 miles an hour even in those days, but really struggled to get through the turns.
Speaker 2:And so by the time we got to Madison which I say was in October, it was cold I really felt that we could make some changes in the boat, free the thing up a little bit. You know, we'd probably knock 10 or 12 miles an hour off the top end, but if we could get it in and out of the turns quicker, the thing could. Just so much potential. And so I wanted to deepen the sponsons a half an inch, and Larry Crisp was the crew chief at the time and Jim McCormick, and, as we're talking about this, somehow it got to. Well, if a half an inch is better an inch, if a half an inch is good, an inch would be better. And I'm saying no, no, no, no. You know, I think that's too much. Let's, let's not, let's not go overboard here. Let's, let's. You know, I'd rather be not enough and have to add more later. Let's, let's, you know, I'd rather be not enough and you'd have to add more later. And so I got outvoted on that and we ended up putting in a one inch shim under all the battens and deepening the sponsons an inch.
Speaker 2:And I remember the boat coming under the the bridge. It was coming into the wind, you know, it was probably 40 degrees or something. Outside it was cold, so the air was really dense and making lots of lift. And Jim, the boat had always been so settled and never overreacted. And when Jim got to the start-finish line there, jim McCormick, driving it, ran over his own wake from leaving the pits, the thing you know. It rattled off the sponsons and stuck its nose in the air and just dangled there for a second and Jim gathered the thing in, cut across the infield and came back and said get those things out of there. And I said, well, can we just take half of them off? Nope, nope, nope, let's take them all out of there. So we never really got the opportunity. I firmly believe still to this day. If we were to deepen the sponsors a half an inch kind of split, the difference there, it would have got in and out of the turn so much better, accelerated off the turn so much better. We would have given up some top end, but I gladly give up some top end to get it in and out of the turns better. So never got the opportunity to do that and unfortunately I went from bad to worse.
Speaker 2:There weren't many cab overboats running in those days, jim McCormick being old school and most of his friends and the people around there, you know being old school and most of his friends and the people around there, you know being old school. With the end of the season, um, jim said hey, you know I've been talking with, uh, you know different people and and you know brilliant people and people that are are on my hero list. While bill cantrell, um, you know some of the people you know in in detroit at the gale shop, um, you know, said you know we need to make a conventional out of this. People you know in Detroit at the Gale shop, you know, said you know we need to make a conventional out of this thing. And you know, put the driver where he belongs behind the engine there. And it literally brought tears to my eyes to take this absolutely beautiful you know, ron Jones configuration that I knew there was so much untapped potential there and to take what I thought was a giant step backwards to turn the thing into a conventional.
Speaker 2:At that point in time we were getting to the point where there wasn't an awful lot going on at the shop. I was there by myself quite a bit. Jim and Bonnie McCormick were building a new house and for a long time it seemed like a long time I ended up working at the McCormick's house building cabinets, kitchen cabinets and things, and not really sure what was going to happen there. And then Jim said let's make that boat a conventional. And I said okay, I will do that. But what happens then? And he said well, we got lots of things to do here. We've got the sheet metal shop, you can do that there. You know what happens then and he said well, you know, we got lots of things to do here. You know we've got the sheet metal shop. You know you can do that, there's lots of things. And I said you know, sorry, but that's not what I want to do my dad's in the heating, air conditioning and ventilation and electronic electrical business. I can work with my dad. You know, jim, if I wanted to do that. I want to race boats.
Speaker 2:And so my agreement was that I would stay until the boat was ready to go in the water and did all the work, basically by myself, to, you know, turn that beautiful boat into a conventional, which wasn't the right thing to do. And, as history you know, if you go back and take a look at it, you'll see that that boat eventually did, you know, become a cab over again and was never. By that point in time all the good stuff had been taken out of it and it really was never allowed to be what it could have been. But the other thing that happened around that time that made it very difficult on my end was that another person on my hero list, david Herrensberger, had called Jim McCormick and asked him to drive the Pay Impact in 1975. And at that point Jim knew he was going to go boat racing and you know, probably the finest boat you know that you know was out there, the defending national champion, the defending national champion, gold cup winner, all that sort of thing. And, and so Jim really had no interest in promoting his race team or doing anything with it. So at that point in time, I honestly thought that I was going back to California to go back to work with Ron Jones, and was on the way back to California to do that.
Speaker 2:When we left Owensboro, my parents were living in Las Vegas with my grandparents on my mom's side of the family and managed some apartments there that they owned, and so we stopped there to visit my parents. One thing led to another. Ron wasn't really sure what was going to happen, what was going to go on. He, unfortunately, had closed down the shop, became good friends with Bob Fendler, who had a shop in Phoenix, arizona, with the Lincoln Thrift stuff. All of Ron's stuff, including my tools, got moved to Arizona to be stored there. Unfortunately, bob Fendler and the Lincoln Thrift Company got in some financial issues and were being investigated, and so everything was was on hold. All the tools and everything that were there were confiscated and trying to decide if they were Bob Fendler's or who owned the stuff. And so, anyway, in the meantime, my dad had a I think it was a 40-foot vintage Chris Craft that he was restoring.
Speaker 2:That was out at Lake Mead and we stopped into the Lake Mead Marine Supp Marine supply, um to pick up some parts and pieces for that. I was wearing a, uh, a boat racing t-shirt and hat of some sort, and and uh started a conversation with uh, with a kid that was a son of the guy that owned the Marina there, um, who was putting together, uh, a drag boat, a drag hydro, um, and uh, one thing led to and I got offered a job at Las Vegas Marine Supply, which I ended up taking, and so we stayed in Vegas for a while there and before I got the opportunity to get back involved in with the Unlimiteds again. So I answered a lot of questions there, but I don't know if I answered the one you asked of me.
Speaker 2:So, yes, indeed, I did get the opportunity to go for a ride in the. Redman in San Diego, and that was my first time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right. All right. Well, quite the first experience you had there driving an Unlimited, it was yeah. Well, that's all the time we have for this week. If you're like me, that episode went way too quick and you're ready to hear more from John about his illustrious career in unlimited hydroplane racing, don't worry because I got you. Next week we'll have part two and continue the talk with John and he'll explain more about his years with Atlas of Airlines Racing, muncie Racing, working with Jim Lucero and moving on to driving his own unlimited hydroplane for David Herrensberger and the Pain Pack Racing Team.
Speaker 1:Really loved hearing all of his stories. I can't wait to share more of them with you. But one thing I'm more excited about is for John's book to be released. But he's got some great stories to share and he's going to talk more about his book in the next upcoming episodes. But I can't wait to purchase one for myself and read his book, because I know he wasn't sharing everything in this interview, which he shared a ton of information about his past, but I know he's got some more great stories that I won't want to put the book down. We'll just say that In the meantime, don't forget to check us out on social media.
Speaker 1:We're on Facebook, instagram. Don't forget to check us out on social media. We're on facebook, instagram and you can check us out online at ruchetailtalkcom. Don't forget.
Speaker 1:There is on that website a link for ruchetail talk plus, a subscription-based service where you get early access to all new episodes and as well as some fun surprises on the website, as I've been adding on pictures from previous Hydroplane Racing years, some fun articles, and I'm going to continue to build my database and archives on my Roostertail Talk Plus subscription.
Speaker 1:It's kind of pay-as-you-go and choose-your-own-plan anywhere from $3 to $10 a month, but some great fun features. Anywhere from $3 to $10 a month, but some great fun features and all of that money comes back to support the show and really cover all those hidden costs that come along with a podcast. As you know, I'm a teacher and this podcast comes out of my pocket, so over the years some expenses have piled up, but I continue to do this for my love and passion for the sport of hydroplane racing, because the sport has given so much to me in my life over the years. I'm hoping I'm giving my part back. That's all we have for this week, though, so until next time I hope to see you at the race.