Roostertail Talk

Episode 153: Mark Tate, Part 1

• David Newton • Season 7 • Episode 17

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David Newton sits down with hydroplane racing legend Mark Tate to discuss his remarkable career from outboard racing to becoming a Gold Cup champion in the Unlimited class. Mark shares stories about his family's racing legacy and his journey through the sport's highest levels. Join us next week for part two of our interview with Mark Tate where we'll continue exploring his storied racing career.


*Photo taken by Bill Osborne


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Speaker 1:

Rooster Tail Talk, the podcast dedicated to everything about the sport that we all love, hydroplaning racing. I am your host, david Newton, and it's time once again. So sit back, relax and welcome back to the show. I'm your host, david Newton, and we're on episode 153. And today's guest? We have a new guest on the show. I'm talking with Mark Tate.

Speaker 1:

You might recognize him from back in the 90s. He had some great battles him versus the Bud. It was always the Bud was the top boat and Mark got a chance to knock him down quite a few times and stole some gold cups from them and had some great races and great rivalries in the 90s, always ran a beautiful boat. I love the paint schemes. They always had the Winston Eagle Smokin', Joe's Close Call Really popped on the water. A beautiful boat. I love the paint schemes. They always had the Winston Eagle Smoke and Joe's Close Call Really popped on the water. It was beautiful. I was definitely a fan in the 90s. Hydroplane racing had a big impression on me in the 90s so I definitely followed Mark's career pretty closely and rooted for him on more than one occasion. But you might not recognize his name for that reason. You might recognize him more as andrew tate's dad, because, uh, andrew tate is taking the, the h1 series by storm, uh, winning championships, gold cups, many race wins now, just like his father did back with his career.

Speaker 1:

It was a great interview, really appreciated, appreciated. Talking with Mark. It's fascinating how you can get these great interviews via Zoom now. Technology is really advanced, although the audio quality, I will admit, is not the best for this one, and I apologize, but he had some great stories, went into some technical stuff that you'll really enjoy, went into some technical stuff that you'll really enjoy and I guess we should just get into the interview, don't you think? All right, here's part one, multiple part episode of my interview with Mark Tate. Well, I'm sitting down here on Zoom talking with Mark Tate. Mark, how are you doing today?

Speaker 2:

Doing great. Thank me for doing the interview with you.

Speaker 1:

I look forward to it. Yeah, I appreciate that. Looks like you didn't get too much sun in Madison. Hopefully the heat didn't get you at all.

Speaker 2:

It was plenty warm there, I'll tell you that. And yeah, I'm a pretty pale guy, so I'm pretty colored up for myself.

Speaker 1:

Well, I appreciate your time and I followed your career as a kid growing up. A lot of battles between you and Bud. It was some fun years there, so I'm excited to talk to you more about your career. But you come from a racing family. A lot of traditions of racing in your family and before we get into the Hydroplane Unlimited's ranks, why don't you talk more about racing with your family and what that get into the hydroplane unlimited breaks? Why don't you talk more about racing with your family and what that meant to you growing up? Was it just second nature to race?

Speaker 2:

you know it was funny, I, um my grandfather raced, my dad raced, my dad's stepbrothers, two of them both raced um, casey and lanny tate, um, um, and you know I followed, followed that group around when I was younger, racing and I and 72, I don't remember how old I was, but 1972 was my first year racing but in 71, we went to Lake Lansing, right Uh, outboard race here in Michigan and um, right uh, outboard race here in michigan and um, my dad was pointing out that some of these kids were racing and what I thought of it, and you know he got me pretty, pretty excited and and um, from there we bought our first boat, which was a headland j hydro and um, that started my racing career in 1972.

Speaker 2:

In 1978, I went inboard racing, obviously because all my family members raced inboards, and then in 1990, I got the opportunity to drive an Unlimited with Steve Woomer. But as far as a family thing, I even met my wife, sandy Tay you know now, but she was Sandy Ray at the time and was lived in california and raced 145s and we met in decatur, illinois, and kind of corresponded for two or two and a half years and and uh, we ended up getting married and we had our two boys. That were very proud of each of them and you know both of them race rates as outboards and still, and you know, andrew has progressed through the outboards, through the inboards, into unlimiteds and being very successful and, uh, we're very proud of them yeah, yeah, I'm sure you're proud of both, both kids continuing that racing legacy.

Speaker 1:

Uh, I have to ask, though did you ever race against sandy in the same class against her, never raced against her, nope. Oh, okay.

Speaker 2:

Raced 145s back here in Michigan and Ohio kind of thing in different places, but I never raced head-to-head with her. If we did, she probably would have beat me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I was going to say it's probably a good thing you didn't race against her. That's right. You might not be married. That's right, that's right.

Speaker 2:

Oh, not married, that's right, that's right. Oh funny, and andrew might not be.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, andrew might not be around. Yeah, all right. Well, with that, that, you're, you're, you're centered in the detroit area and that seattle detroit rivalry has to mean something to you.

Speaker 2:

Uh, growing up on the area, right yeah it I think over the years when the yacht clubs kind of got out of it. You know, seattle Yacht Club, detroit Yacht Club and that's how the Unlimited was really based around for many years and it made that rivalry, the city rivalries, really big. But since that's kind of disappeared. You know, yeah, seattle's always been a big race to me. It was one that I never won, unfortunately, the year I felt I had my best opportunity to win I blew over, pushing a little too hard. But you know that's racing and you know no regrets. You know I wish I could have won one there for Woomer, but it never happened.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that was unfortunate. I remember because I was a kid, I was 93. And yeah, I thought you had it there. You had Chip on your outside, you had the lead and, yeah, just got to you. It's very unfortunate that you and Woomer never got that win in Seattle.

Speaker 2:

A lot of people didn't know. We were fast that day and we were having some handling problems and we couldn't get a grasp on the boat ride real good and and um and, after the blowover and we got the boat back and Jim peeled the decks off to start doing the repairs, the front spar was broke on the right side and it had been broke for quite a while because those were aluminum spars back then and you could see where it was broken. The aluminum was all gray and everything, because the next day when I got released out of the hospital, jim showed me he goes well, here's why we couldn't get the boat and settled down. That spar was broken. That sponsor kept flexing and pitching up and changing the angle of attack, so but uh, still, you're supposed to, the driver's supposed to drive the boat within the limits of the boat and I was outside the window yeah, but but you were doing everything you could to win, right, I was yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, let's back up a little bit, because before you got your start in the limited ranks, you had a short stint with the Shaneth ATA experiment. I want to talk about that because I was too young then but looking back at tapes and I thought it was a great promotional uh you know event that he was putting on it, but it was short lived. Can you talk about that experience and what your thoughts were on on that, that series?

Speaker 2:

You got to give Jerry Sands a lot of credit. He spent a lot of personal money and tried to develop an automotive um unlimited uh series because he felt that that was the direction that it should have went after the Merlin and Griffin deals. Um, you know, he built a boat like I drove which was called double trouble and it had two motors and two props. And then he built a single automotive and he built a double motor that were coupled together and so we had, you know, three different versions there and we were going around trying to promote it and he was trying to sell it to automotive aftermarket companies for sponsorships and that kind of stuff. But unfortunately it never got off. But yeah, it was a great opportunity for Mark Tate to drive a big boat and work with some people and a crew and understand the environment a little bit of how those types of programs were ran.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, was that a fun experience for you.

Speaker 2:

Very fun, yeah, yeah, was that a fun experience for you? Very fun, yeah. I got to work with Einer Galashis, kind of maintained and worked on my boat as my team manager. And then you had the two brothers I can't think of their last names out of Washington there Rutt Brothers, rutt Brothers yeah, I think that was them there. They uh, rut brothers, rut brothers, yeah, I think that was them. Yep and um. They maintained two of the boats themselves and um, and it was good collaboration.

Speaker 1:

everybody kind of worked together and communicated and and um and try to make it, you know, a feasible opportunity for boat racing yeah, well, it's unfortunate that didn't flourish, but I think you got some attention from that and your inboard racing, because a couple of years later you were racing Unlimiteds.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, a big part of my Unlimited career really came when. You know, it was funny I never really followed Unlimited unlimited because I was so focused on my own racing career I never went to, never went to the detroit event. Wow, I was always racing somewhere when that was going on. And, um, you know, after driving being very successful seven liter and driving grand prix boats and having success, I was friends with John Love and I asked John went to him and had a meeting with him. How do you know? I'm kind of ready to make the next step, but I don't know anybody. I've never been to an unlimited race. How do I get involved? And John helped me put together a resume and within the resume we put together video clips of me driving and John and myself flew out to San Diego for the last race of the Unlimited season in 19,. What would that be? 89?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was at the Gold Cup down there in 89, the year before you started with Harvey.

Speaker 2:

Yep and John introduced me to every owner and we gave them a resume and films and I got calls from Woomer and I got calls from Harvey and I got calls from there was three guys, I can't remember who the third was at the time, but anyhow, harvey showed great interest and so did Steve Woomer, and Woomer ended up hiring Cropfield because the sponsor wanted a more experienced driver and he was being let go at Budweiser and that made sense. But Harvey gave me the opportunity and that was a great learning experience with Jim and got my feet wet. And then the next year RJ Reynolds and Woomer called and you know 91 got hired with them and it really elevated my opportunities in Unlimited.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, huge opportunity there. But I'm just curious going from inboard racing unlimited, how big of a learning curve was that? And I and I and I think it's so much different nowadays than it was back in your day, because you had what? Eight or more races, and now they have four or five races, right, so it's such a condensed season now there were years when I was racing unlimited.

Speaker 2:

We had 12 or 13 races of that, yeah. But um, my first race was miami, ohio, and jim was in the position to where he was, had a merlin boat and he was converting it to a turbine and so we didn't test, he didn't get the turbine program done. We went to miami as a merlin, we raced miami, detroit, evansville or in detroit, I think, those two races as merlin, and then we switched after detroit, went to fairlane tool and converted everything over the turbine. I think we ran turbine at maybe evansville and madison that year or out west, or maybe that's what it was. We ran the east coast with the merlin and went out. So my very first heat we didn't even get on the water at miami to test.

Speaker 2:

Wow, we went right into the race. You know, back then you have all these qualifications and so many laps and this and that right, and I got barn burner started on the outside and we got down to that first turn and bud and circus were ahead of me and they got to the corner when they got to the apex and I looked into that corner and saw the white water come together in the wakes and how rough it was. I just went, I backed out and I waddled through that corner and got again back up the front chute. I mean you know we finished third, my first heat ever. I was feeling okay in myself because I got a great start. And you know we got a third and put us in a good position, you know, to accumulate points to make a final. And Jim was on the dock. I got out of the boat and walked up to the dock where Jim was and he goes. What happened in the first turn? I said, um, jim, when I got down there I said that water was two feet, three feet deep when their wakes came together and I said I've never seen water that deep, that rough, in my life. He goes. I didn't think any boat would go through that. And I backed up and Harvey looked at me and he said, oh boy, and he turned around and walked off the dock and I thought to myself I think I might be getting fires and uh, anyhow it all worked out.

Speaker 2:

We went to detroit and we had a great weekend and you know I got better and better and learned the water conditions and learned how how well these boats can perform in rough water and what they could do and couldn't do.

Speaker 2:

And by the time we went turbine, once we got a turbine in there, it was like night and day to drive a turbine, compared to a Merlin, you know, with a hitting the nitrous and not over, you know, can't go wide open Cause if you go just throw the pedal down, the boost goes too high and then you blow up the the motor. And it was a big learning curve. Just when I was getting somewhat good at it, we went turbine. And when we went turbine I was like, oh my god, now I can drive a race boat, I can concentrate and just drive the boat and not worry about everything else. So I I give a lot of credit to people like deeth and crop, field and chip and and bill muncy and, you know, dean chenoweth, all those guys that could drive those piston boats so good because there was so much going on in the cockpit yeah, that's something the average fan doesn't know about.

Speaker 1:

All the atrocities to those voters. Quite the learning curve you had there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I probably wasn't very good at it. You know, I know I wasn't very good at it. It would take a year to really feel comfortable and get a lot underneath your belt. But I was real happy when Jim went turbine and I could actually drive, just drive the race boat, and it was more what I was used to.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. Well, fortunately for you the next year in 91, that's when you got your big break with Boomer, rj Reynolds big sponsor behind you, and they had bought a new boat from the old circus program, got lucero on board, really an all-star cast for you. Uh, at competition specialties. How did that opportunity present itself from the next season? Was it kind of the impact you made in the off season 89 there that got you that, that gig?

Speaker 2:

I think. So, you know, I think they had the interest of the year prior they really watched me of how I progressed throughout that first year with jim harvey and um, you know, jim cropfield I think. I think he struggled there mainly because of possibility. The equipment that they had that, you know, it wasn't up to date as far as what they were buying or what they bought, and I think that they kind of felt that, hey, we're buying this new rig. We really liked this young kid. You know this is something that we can build and all grow together.

Speaker 2:

And all the pieces came together and we went testing a couple of times in Tri-Cities prior to the first race there in detroit.

Speaker 2:

And um, jim really listened to me a lot on skid fin design and we came up with three different fins and width and a little bit of depth, because in limited inboards we didn't run real deep like I call them dagger skid fins that everybody was running back then and I talked to Jim about it and you know now they got all this money.

Speaker 2:

Well, jim went out and had three of them machined and what changed on them was the core and a little bit of the depth and we could move it up and down or back and forth with all three of them and we started in Tri-cities with the smallest one man. It worked good. And then the next. You know, the next we changed, the fin went to the next one, and the next one and we went to the biggest one we had at the time. Well, now you can see where the skid fits are today. They're huge. They've taken that design that gave us an advantage early in that year on skid fin design that we got around the race course really, really good, and I really feel that that's why my very first race we won the gold cup is.

Speaker 1:

You know, we we were a step ahead of everybody in one technology area yeah, yeah, that's impressive to step to a new team and get that first win and and I love hearing that backstory with those skid fins. Was that like going from a you know an okay racing car to like a Ferrari from those two seasons, or was it?

Speaker 2:

Most definitely. You know the other boat handled differently. It was later on its speed, it was accelerate much faster. You know unbelievably night and day difference between the two programs. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Well, you started a long career with Wilmer there in 91, had a fast boat. You got to the winner's circle right away. Like you said, you won that first race in Detroit Gold Cup. That had to have been something special in a hometown race. Win right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, pretty special moment First race with the team, first race of the year, first race with a new sponsor, rj Reynolds really their second year in the sport, uh, under the brand name of Winston, and all the pieces got lined up and we won. It was just in my hometown and you couldn't write a better uh you know story about it. So it was. It was, uh, quite an ordeal for me. It was really an emotional day.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, well, fantastic, well, I mean you had some great years there and the boat just kind of evolved with the program, got faster and faster. And 93 stands out for me because that was an impressionable year for me as a kid. There was every boat had its own paint scheme. That was beautiful and I love the winston eagle paint scheme. It's kind of weird for a nine-year-old to be rooting for a cigarette boat, um, sponsored boat. But unfortunately for you you didn't find the winner's circle. But you had a highlight that year in 93 and you were the first to to an oval lap qualifying over 170 miles an hour. So you were in Detroit, you did a lap of 170.087, first to go over 170 miles an hour. What was that ride like? Did that stand out for you? Could you tell it was quite quick, was that? Could you tell?

Speaker 2:

it was really quick, we we? The story really behind that that deal is we hurt the boat prior to coming in Detroit. We had repairs. We didn't get in there till late that day and we were getting real close to where we weren't even going to get qualified in. And I said to Jim and I said you know, jim. I said let's not put the rear wing on, let's run the low rake propeller, let's change the balance. I said look at that water out there. I've never seen Detroit like that. It's a mill pond. This is what we tested on and we did. We did some testing with these types of combinations to see how the boat handled, in case we wanted to ever run a straightway record.

Speaker 2:

Oh so it was kind of where we would test this and try cities and Pasco every year and and we knew what we had and we knew it was really fast and a straight line Jim goes, do you think you can get it around the corner? I said, man, I don't know, but that's a big, big turn. And I said the only concern we would have would be the pit turn. And I said, you know, I said we might not make it by the time we put the wing on and get that all on, we might not make qualifying. So Jim made the call he goes, we're going to do it. And we set the boat up with that set and we went out there and when I came down that back chute the first time, uh, in the warm-up lap, I said well, this will be the telltale if I can get this boat through this corner. But I came through there on a rail and I I went off and ran that 170 and um, jim lacero was so impressed with it. He one comment he made to me he goes, you were come off that pit turn and you accelerated so fast and everybody was watching he goes. It was dead silence and he goes. You could hear the water trinkle and the Brewster tail falling back into the water. That's cool.

Speaker 2:

And I get down into the first turn and I'm probably already, you know, three quarters of the way through the first turn, jim comes over the radio and tells me to back down. And I get back on the radio and I said, jim, this is the Gold Cup, it's two laps qualifying average. And he gets back on the radio right away. He goes. I told you to back down, you just ran a lap over 170. Well, now I'm on the corner and coming up the back chute. All right, I back off and come back around. And we still ran a lap at like 16, almost 169, and I said I said to jim, I said if you wouldn't hand me back off, I said we were probably ran 173, 174 mile an hour lap.

Speaker 2:

Oh my god and uh, and he goes yeah, we might not add a motor either. He goes, that motor was singing only where the dogs could hear it. And uh but uh, I ran on the computer 211 mile an hour on that lap to the pit turn and never backed off. I knew it. It was unbelievably how fast we were running that day.

Speaker 2:

You probably couldn't use that combination in race water, though right, no, not with that low rate propeller Boat was way balanced differently. But in that calm water, that water was like a mirror that day it just laid right down. So it was, uh, you know, another special day in detroit for me. You know, it was another unbelievable moment. Yeah, another funny thing about that is well, sarah would never come to the dock after a run Never Really and open the canopy. You know, shut the motor off, open the canopy, and the next thing I know, jim jumps on the boat, comes down and shakes my hand and and I and and thank, and he thanked me and I said, well, okay, I, you know, I didn't realize. I said, well, what's that all about, jim? And he goes. I was the first crew chief to run a lap at like 120, 130, 140, 150. He goes, I missed 160. Budweiser's got it. You just gave me 170. Thank you. He jumped off the boat and ran back up to the truck. That's hilarious.

Speaker 1:

That's a moment they have with jim and cyril. You know, oh yeah, definitely, and you're, you know, one of only a handful that have done that lap of one over 170, I think. Uh, dave the walk has, dustin eckles has chip has now my son andrew, now your son andrew.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, amazing, pretty cool, and he went faster than me, which is pretty cool, you know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah yeah, but not in detroit though not in detroit, no, yeah still.

Speaker 2:

I mean it kind of shows you the growth of the sport. They've taken away the n2, the fuel, the boats are heavier now and and they've creeped right back up onto our top speeds and qualifying. They're not still running the same speeds in racing water yet, but I mean it tells you that the technology and the development and the sport is still there, which is kind of cool.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, it's pretty interesting to see all all the other components that they have pushed forward over the years to make that happen. Well, you mentioned something about straightaway possible straightaway record that. Did that ever come close to happening, or was?

Speaker 2:

it always in the talks it was always in the talk and and, um and when they uh. So when they talked about it, I had it put in my contract that if we did a straightaway record that you know, you know what it would cost them and uh, very dangerous, so you know. But but it would have been something I would have loved to have tried. I think we could have accomplished it very easily with our test data that we were formulating and doing. But RJ Reynolds was the one that brought it up and originally thought about it, but then it never happened. They decided that it didn't have the value or the meaning that they felt it would for them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, well, it definitely is dangerous. I mean, you know, a lot of people lost their lives and and broke broken some pieces over the years trying to get that, so, but what could have been though? Right, yeah, but unfortunately that's all the time we have for this week. Knuckleheads. Make sure you come back next week, same time, same channel, and you get to hear part two of my interview with Mark Tate. Until then, make sure you check us out online, our website, richardteltalkcom, as well as on social media. We're on Instagram, facebook, and if you haven't checked out Richard Tel Talk Plus yet, make sure you do so.

Speaker 1:

I have the 10-card trading card set that I'm going to take with me to the Columbia Cup and Seafair as well, and if you are a member, I've already talked to some of you before this has aired and I've made some plans to meet up with you and get those cards to you. But if you're interested in getting one of those card sets, make sure you become a member today and secure your card set, because they are a limited release and I'm not going to make a second print of them. My plan is to have it made for this year. Maybe do a different card set later this year, but do another one next year for my Richel Talk Plus subscribers Not available for sale, and again you have to be a member to get one. But that's all we have for this week. So until next time, hope to see you at the races.