Episode 178: Sam Cole, Part 2

We pick up our conversation with Sam Cole as he explains how unlimited hydroplane racing broke onto national television and why that single shift changed sponsorship leverage for decades. We also get candid about the messy reality of exclusivity rules, hard business lessons from the Miller era, and the larger-than-life people who shaped the sport. Make sure you come back next week, as we'll have part three and the conclusion of my interview with Sam Cole.

*Photo by Bill Osborne

Transcript

Welcome Back And Part Two Setup

SPEAKER_00 0:24

RoosterTale Talk, the podcast dedicated to everything about the sport that we all love. I do play Reach. I am your host, David Newton, and it's time once again to sit back, relax, and welcome Rooster Tail Talk. Hello, Race fans, and welcome back to the podcast. Today is April 21st, 2026, and this is episode 178, part two of my interview with Sam Cole. Now, just like my other ones, if you haven't heard part one, I'm going to encourage you to go back to episode 177 and listen to part one of my interview with Sam Cole as he goes through a lot of his background and history into hydroplane racing. I'll have a link in the bio below. But if you have listened to part one, then please continue listening and join us as I continue my talk with Sam, as he talks more about his years in the 1980s around hydroplane racing. He talks more about getting the hydroplanes on TV, in particular with ESPN, and getting some big names in the sport, like Miller, Brewing Company. We also talk about some of the people and personalities he knew along the way, uh, and really kind of just centered in that spot before he became commissioner. I'm not gonna make you wait any longer. Let's jump back in to my conversation with Sam Cole. Well, going back to that time in the early 80s, uh, I feel like uh was it 83 or 84? I can't remember what year. It just seems like going back through my dad's stash of all those old VHS tapes and watching hours on end, I just a huge oh god, I'll never forget.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Um television um got better more coverage and the races were covered. Can you talk more into that?

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Sure. Um there was this little fledgling network called ESPN that was starting, and I had gotten in contact with a guy named Alan Reid, who um had an agreement with ESPN to produce X number of hours of shows, and um we worked and worked and worked on how we could put together hydroplane racing. Um, but then we went out, we were in Seattle. I'll never forget this, because uh, you know, for every for years, the only race on national television was produced by a company called TWI, and they kind of did one race, was always the Gold Cup, yeah, and that was with the sports in action on it, and Jim Hendrick always announced with either like you know, they had Rick Berry, they had uh Don Cricky, you know, all these different names and stuff, but one race, yeah. Well, I went to the commission meeting and I said, you know, we might make uh five thousand dollars off of TWI for the gold cup, but let's cancel the contract. They don't want anything to do with ESPN or anything else. And I've got a deal here. The first year we can put six races on ESPN, and how it really worked was uh we paid the race site paid X dollars, the URC paid X dollars. That was how we produced the races, and then obviously we paid Alan Reed and ESPN kicked in a little money, and we got six races on in 1981. Okay, um from there in 82, I met a young guy named Sean McManus, who at the time is who was actually Jim McKay's son, oh, who went on to become the head of CBS Sports and just retired. He was an up-and-coming guy at NBC, and there was a baseball strike. And he goes, Hey, we need some fill fill time, we can get the footage from King TV and produce the gold cup from Seattle, and that was nine, that was 1981.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

However, the baseball strike ended and the show never got on. Oh but Sean and I made a deal in '82. We agreed to do the gold cup and the world championship. And remember that was the Chip Hanauer, Dean Channel with Detroit, yeah, Paul Page, Gary Gerald, you know, Johnny Rutherford. Um, then I met Harvey Palis from the National Network. So we ended up like in Houston, we did the world championship race on NBC Speed World, and then we did the other races in Houston on National Network.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Uh, and so within three years, we had every race either on ESPN, NB two races on NBC Speed World, usually one race on National Network, and then a guy named Ed Dubrot came in and he syndicated one race a year. So we actually had 12 races and we had 12 television shows, yeah. And I don't know, to this day, you still need TV to succeed, right? And um, you know, and when I was a chairman, we had of we had right we had the races on almost every year on a net on a network. We were even streaming the race, taking the footage, and then patch it packaging it for cable TV. But oh, TV was really helped. I mean, you know, you could go tell a sponsor we're gonna be on TV. And um though those were big things back then, yeah. But it was a I'll never forget Jim looked at me and he goes, I hope you know what you're doing. Jim Hendrick. And he I said, What do you mean? He goes, Well, we've been doing this for 20 years. He said, Jim, don't worry, you'll be okay. You know, and then Jim started and was the anchor guy on the ESPN for years, you know, and um then we were he and I worked together the first what three years on ESPN doing doing the races. Uh I got a patch that's that was all the pay we ever got, but we still did it, you know. And uh, but it was great. I mean, they're still out there, you know, they're still out there on YouTube, right? And um, it's sad, you know. And now I you can watch a show, watch a race in an hour, or actually what 40 some minutes is a TV time, but um, you know, not one heat at a time on YouTube for nine hours, but you know, that's how it goes.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Yeah, yeah. No, it's that's remarkable, remarkable work there. Uh as I'm I know the sponsors love that, right? Any exposure they can get, so uh uh that's huge.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Well, yeah, and then Bernie, Bernie and Izer Bush got involved a cut about the second year, third year, they were more involved with the SPN because it really took hold. And um, you know, they were sponsoring races. Um, but it it was it was really, I'm telling you, it was grassroots. We got the race sites to pay like half the money. We paid our pay a third of the money, we paid a third, and then ESPN paid a third. And then now it's like pretty much for our sport, you got to pay your way on, but it's not that expensive, yeah, yeah.

Miller Sponsorship And Taylor Racing Jump

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Well, uh around that time you got in touch with Miller Brewing Company, and you got a sponsorship, uh RB Taylor. And just it's a fascinating year. Fascinating year is a it was a new hull, new motor, uh new team in some sense. There, okay, can talk more about that because it that was a huge deal back in 1984.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Oh, it was. I can remember going over to um Milwaukee, uh, talking to them, JJ Shields, Sam Bell Navis, and all the people over there. Uh, we got kind of laid the plans for what was in Bob Taylor gotten involved. He had had that American Speedy, won what finished like third, second, first, or something like that. Almost won the world championship, had a great year with Jack Schaefer, and uh things were falling into place with uh Jerry Zuvich, Tom Deeth building a boat. Uh Craig Arfons kind of convinced everyone about these um GET 54 engines, you know. And um, I uh gave up my uh job with the URC to uh go down and work for Bob Taylor. Um, you know, it was 40 years ago. I was a lot younger, probably a little more naive than I am today.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

And uh you moved down there too, right? You you uprooted, oh yeah, correct?

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Detroit to Houston. And my dad was down there, and um he was doing the boat race, and I was doing the uh the boat thing, and it was it was exciting, but it was um frightening because um everything didn't kind of go the way it was supposed to. Yeah, uh, you know, I um I was promised a lot of things, but you know, I'm still waiting to open my first American Speedy franchise. Um that I yeah, because Bob got eight of them in the deal to sponsor the boat.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

And um yeah, and so oh, don't worry, Sam. Two of them are yours. Yeah, sure, right. So yeah, but anyway, I learned I learned a lot. Learned a lot about business, learned a lot about what not to do. Uh probably it's right, kind of one thing I never listened I listened to Fred more than I never should have was he always wanted things in writing and signed. And I was like, Oh, well, don't worry, my dad would be don't worry about it. Taylor's a real guy, so yeah, I got down there and you know, I lasted uh four races into the 84 season. Yeah, and uh I was unemployed in Houston, Texas, trying to figure out what to do, but um I wouldn't trade it uh for anything. We um did things, you know, we were trying to do things that was really tough. Uh, you know, Bernie one time walks up to me and goes, I want to tell you, Sam, you made me more money than anybody else in this sport by bringing Miller in.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Oh, okay.

Exclusivity Rules That Block Sponsors

SPEAKER_01 10:20

And I was like, that was a compliment, you know. But it was uh it was tough. I mean, it was really, really tough. And um it, you know, some of the problems back then, not with Taylor racing, but with the sport, are still problems today when it comes to sponsorships and exclusivity and things like that. Um, you know, NASCAR as an example, how many companies do you see there at a race? Oh and they're not always confined to the pits, right? Um I had worked, I'm gonna jump ahead and come back, but I had worked for Bob Steil for six months in between after Taylor racing. Okay, pretty much had a deal in place for uh California Cooler. Okay, remember them? California Cooler?

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

So I said Jim Harvey, me and Rob Style, we go, we gotta go tell Don Jones about this. So I go over and I say, Hey, California Cooler, once they get involved in a sport, they want to um have a beach party at every race and sponsor Bob Styles' boat. And Don Jones goes, God, that's great, that's great. However, I can't let you do that here in Seattle because we have an exclusive sponsorship with Budweiser. Oh, but even if I could, they'd have to pay about fifty thousand dollars to have a um hospital the beach party. And I'm sitting there and I looked over at Jim and I go, I can't go back and tell those people the sport really doesn't want them.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Because Anheuser Busch owned a and they had the conflict was Anheuser Bush owned a um wine cooler at the time.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Just like if you had gotten Fried Olay at the time, they owned Eagle Snacks. But we'd gotten that all put together. Well, fast forward to what 2012 with the Air National Guard in Seafair one night. Captain Major Perry was all upset because we didn't have a big footprint, we didn't have decal banners and stuff as a series sponsor for Air National Guard. I said we can't, we're not allowed to. So he and Christine went out one night and put Air National Guard decals, bumper stickers, on every garbage can at seafair along the shore.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

The next morning, they're all in a garbage can peeled off, and I get called in to Beth and Eric Corning going, What's this? You don't have a right to do that. This is our race site. And I'm like, you know, if you guys don't let us do our um series sponsors some good, then let's just cancel the race. And I again the problem is that the race sites control the race site, obviously, and their exclusivity rules prevent sponsors from getting out in the crowd unless the sponsor wants to pay for it. I don't know what's right, I don't know what's wrong. But limiting back then today, it's always been a thing in sports, in in hydroplate racing, and it's really I think limited the the future. Sorry, I got on a tangent.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Yeah, oh no, no, yeah. Please do.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

I um I feel I'm passionate about it because I mean, like I I was telling you earlier, um, probably one of the funniest things we ever did was with Jerry Zubich, was um we couldn't figure out we couldn't get a hospitality area for Miller Brewing in Miami. How are we gonna promote Miller beer? Yeah, Budweiser sponsors are race. Okay, so we went out and built an ant we Jerry anodized a big ring around the top of that truck. We hid a uh inflatable in there, and we get to Miami, and uh we waited, we waited, we waited, and finally, boom, we turn on the switch, pop pops his light beer can out of the top of a truck. And here comes, I know we'll forget because here comes Bernie. Jesus Christ, Sam, what are you doing? Uh we're promoting Miller beer, Bernie. Yeah, uh for our team. Get that down. This races. I said, Boy, mate, Bernie. This is part of our truck. There's nothing that says can't be part of a truck. Here comes Don Jones, you guys, how could you do this to me? You know, I'm like, Well, how could I do this to Miller Brewing who wants to get their footprint in the sport? Yeah, and so it was a battle, but we ended up having to take the frigging can down, but it was still a brilliant idea for 30 seconds, you know. But it's that's been the I mean, the world's bigger than you know, you know, I'm trying the eagle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eagles or whatever, but I mean, I I know like one of the races, they let every military service go in there and put a display up, and they wanted the Air National Guard to pay 10 or 15,000 bucks. It's like they're sponsoring this whole series, television, everything we're doing, yeah. And what's the deal here? You know, but that's the problem. But even back, it started back then, and even when I worked with getting ABR, I said, we have gotta make it where the race sites allow the sponsors to do what they want to do, and that's and it got a little better. I mean, the sad part to me is you have teams selling t-shirts in the pit area. Where is 99% of the crowd at a boat race on the shore? But yeah, yeah, not in the pits, you can't go out there and promote, no, you know, so it takes a big part. You know, I'm trying to say it takes a big part of what you're allowed to do, but yeah, that really hurt way back then. I'm sorry, I shut off on that. That's exactly I did we did that numerous times, and I get to where I'm like, hey, if Budweiser owns one of these companies, don't bother to bring them in the sport.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

No, it's sad. You know, that would have been fun to have seen uh some different colors on the squire shop there, California cooler. Oh, I was I was I was pumped because it was gonna be a beach party, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Yeah, they were they were a hot product in that and that was 84, 85.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Yeah, that would have been fun. That's too bad. You I hope you have a picture of that light beer can on with the truck.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

No, no, it was too emotional. I was I was getting yelled at.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

That's too bad.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

But you know, it was I learned a lot, you know, it was 40 some years ago, you know. Um, I know every time I have seen Tom DeEth over um the years, he always laughs and goes, Well, it was the easiest hundred thousand bucks I ever earned. And I'm like, Well, you know, hey, what can I say? You know, yeah, it is what it is, and uh we've had our ups and downs.

The Suit Receipt Controversy

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yeah. Well, I did have Tom on last year, and we talked about his career. And he he did talk about uh his year there with Bob Taylor. Um, but he did turn the subject here a little bit. He did make some accusations about uh some of your involvement with the sport or with the not with the sport with Miller Brewing Company. And um, he had a story about a suit that got, I think he said that it was double dipped on. I just wanted to give you an opportunity to talk about that story or uh maybe shed some light on some things.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

As far as Tom being owed money, I don't know because I was gone by and by Detroit four races into the season. I remember we all had to go get a suit because we had a barbecue when they were going to run the the Merlin boat at Clear Lake uh when Miller came down to announce a sponsorship, and everybody got sent over to a men's store. And yeah, we were told to send the receipts into Miller, they paid Taylor Racing, but I don't know who Bob reimbursed or didn't reimburse, right? You know, I mean I have my own, I have my I have my own things, I have my own things there that, you know, and um it like I said, it was 40 some years ago. I mean, Tom got a hundred thousand bucks. I mean, one blazer could have cost him what back then, a couple hundred. I don't know, right? Uh so he didn't really have he didn't really have to strain too hard to earn that hundred. I think he got paid, I don't know. Yeah, because I was gone. But no, there was some it was some tough times, and you know, I learned a lot. And Bob Taylor had a lot of companies, had a lot of different people. Uh my dad had his own experiences there. Uh, people can kind of say what they want, what they don't want. You know, at the end of the day, hell, I owned a um what was it? I found out later I I owned a uh merchandise truck through GMAC that we bought from Buddy Byers that was in my name. I wasn't the millionaire, Bob was. So, you know, I'm not I'm not saying I I learned things, I'm not saying all's right or wrong, but yeah, that's a long time ago. And um, you know, I I I moved on from it. I'm sorry Tom didn't, but yeah, you know, he I think he made out okay on the deal.

Life After Racing Then Return

SPEAKER_00 19:12

I think so. I think so. Oh man. Well, after after Miller and working with Bob Styles, um I kind of have a gap in in in your involvement in the sport there. What were you up to in the late 80s and and the 90s there?

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Making a earning a living.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Kind of a uh I grew up in Madison. My dad married a gal in Sacramento. I came to Sacramento where I went to high see I went to Madison High School, my freshman year, in Sacramento, my sophomore year. We were in LA my junior year because of the Bardall deal. Yeah, and then my stepmother wanted to move back to Sacramento my senior year. So I get out at the end of RB Bob Taylor racing. I packed up a U-Haul and we moved to Sacramento. My wife from the Philippines, her family was in Sacramento. So I came back out here. Okay, and uh gotten it, went to work for uh an insurance company and uh made a living. I kind of kept my fingers around the sport. Yeah, uh, I did in it by the way, in 85, I also brought Pride Airlines into the uh sport. Yeah, and uh we were we were down, you know, we raced in San Diego and we were gonna do some other things with John Asmus because I worked for the I went to work for them uh after Taylor racing and then came out here to Sacramento where I kind of said, Hey, I got kids, I coached Little League, yeah. And then I pretty much didn't go to races for like god, 20 years.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

You know, I did I lived my life, played golf, um, worked, worked, worked, worked, and um then got back involved in uh the early 2000s.

Memories Of Icons And Characters

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Yeah, and how well I want to talk about that uh that how you got involved, but before we get there, I always like to think kind of throw out some names and um sure and get some some memories around those because you were around a lot of unique individuals, some great people around the sport. I mean, I think we can all agree it's the sport's like a family, and we get to know these people and um sometimes better than our own family, right? Uh so I want to throw out some names there, and I wonder if you could share a story with with each of those individuals and impressions with them. But I'm gonna start off with uh with Dean Chenoweth.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Bought my second car from him when he has car dealership in Zenia, Ohio, when I lived, was in Madison at the time. He um did he give you a good deal? I hope so. Except we had to except it developed an oil leak and I took a backup to him. But he apologized. He was a god, quiet, unassuming guy. You know, I think the hardest thing for me was I had the whatever, I don't know what the word is, I had to announce the death. Of Bill Muncie and Dean Chenelwith. And Dean, I knew I knew Dean when he was married to uh Kathy and Dean O his son and Kelly, you know, and then later on with Jenny. Uh, but that guy to me was a class individual, always was. And uh never you never really saw emotion in him, or you know, he never you never see that, but he was just calm, cool, and collected. And my God, that was the hardest day of the world. We were driving across the bridge in Tri-Cities and get and find out what had happened that morning. And uh went to the hospital, and that was terrible. But um, he Dean was a class act all the way, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah, yeah. I've always had heard great stories about him. He passed before I was around the sport, but uh yeah, it's a class act, right? Yep. Yeah. How about Bernie Little?

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Oh my god. I I like he told me, I made him more money than anyone ever ever else did. But uh Bernie was like an uncle, you know, and um I think probably the one thing I never I I look back on that helped me in everything was the unlimited commission that I worked for back in '82, '83. You had Bernie, you had Dave Harensberger, you had OH, you had Bob Steil, you had some real, real b business leaders, business people, and you had people with sales acumen.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

And if I could have picked, you know, something from each of them, it made me better. And uh Bernie is the consummate sales salesman of the world. Um, you know, he was um kind of all about Bernie, but that's okay. That's a good thing. Yeah, but the man branded himself. I mean, he brand as much as Budweiser put in the sport, people knew Bernie little sometimes before they knew Budweiser. The man was a brand. Yes, he was, you know, and uh you know, being in oh now, you know, on that same board was OH Frisbee. Yeah, he was totally he was the quiet with a intense ego and intense will to win. Okay, and but uh those guys would almost do anything to help advance the sport back then, yeah. Uh and Bill Muncie, you know, it those it was just incredible. Um oh probably the best memory hit was just seeing his the elation when chip won that gold cup in '82. Okay. He was just, you know, was he just floating above the ground? He was well, he was thinking about getting out of the sport.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 25:54

You know, after Bill died. Okay. And then they fran and everybody, you know, they kept him involved and chip and all that. And just watching OH come around with that and then winning when burn when OH can beat Bernie, it's a great day. You know, that was it was pretty intense. Okay. I'll leave it at that. I'll leave it at that.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

All right. How about Fred Alter? Do you have any good stories to share about Fred Alter?

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Oh god, but I don't have to tell you Fred was probably sometimes more of an influence on my life than my dad was. Okay. Just because I had altruisms. Um, you know, to this day, a good salesman goes to the bathroom every chance he gets because he doesn't know when he's going to get a chance again. A smart salesman buys a four-door car because people can't get in it. I mean, Fred was just the Fred's Fred. And he was self-made. Um I told you about flying with him and that bonanza everywhere. Um he just had a you know, had an outlook that he believed in the sport. It was his life. And my God, the things that he, you know, he the things that he did. And I think probably the best memory of Fred was when I was the chairman. He Fed built that Verners uh boat.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Remember that you yeah, the the kit boat, the replica, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Kit boat. And he finally, well, he always was trying to get it to run, get it to run. He brought it to Detroit. And I want to say it was in like 2012 or 13. He said, I'm ready to run, I'm ready to run. And the course was closing. And I went over and I said, run the boat. And here comes Mark Weber. You can't overrule the course. I said, Mark, when you're 76 years old, yeah, and you're ready to take your boat out there for one run, I'll close the river. And Fred was so grateful, you know, for that. And he went out there and ran 50 miles an hour, but still, you know, yeah, it was Fred. Yeah, but he worked on that thing forever, and that was his dream. The kit boat was like the thing, you know, there was a move. They call this thing the kit boat. They were gonna build this aluminum frame that anybody could buy to get in boat racing. That was how they're gonna try to get new owners into the sport. And Fred bought the only framed up kit boat from Bob Gillum. Okay, somehow it went they you know, they they paraded it around, no one ever bought it. Ended up with Bob Gillam. Fred bought it, and that was what he finished. The kit boat became the Verners. Okay, yeah, and uh he finally lived his dream. But oh my god, yeah. Sinbad's in Detroit. Fred was Fred, and uh, I to this I miss him, I love him, yeah, and he was like a dad.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Yeah, great, another great guy. What about David Harensberger?

SPEAKER_01 28:48

That's a character, yeah. He was Mr. Intensity, um, tough guy, tough guy. He kind of Dave kind of wanted things his way and didn't care about real literally anything else. I mean, when you saw the independence, like when you know, after that '82 crash, I'm out of the sport. You know, no one's gonna talk to Dave, but he was an innovator. My guy, he tried uh whoa, the you know, the Eagle Electric with Warner Gardner and Jack Cocker, and that was great. But then he tried the Keith Black Emmys, yeah, he brought the turban, he tried everything, and even Alright, yeah, and he knew how to tie the race boat into his business to promote it. Yep, and uh and and so you know, he and he was a retailer, different guy. Probably the and I will tell you, I know he wasn't on our list, but Bob Style, yeah, yeah, yeah, taught me the most important lesson of life. Once you make the sale, stop selling. And I thoroughly enjoyed working with Bob Style, and he and I probably had a little bit in common. He had a dad that was bigger than life, like I did. And so we used to always come over and go, Come here, I'm gonna talk to you, you know. And so he kind of helped me through the years. You got to remember when I was executive secretary, the only person to have my home phone number was my dad. That was before cell phones, so I get calls at 10, 11 o'clock at night about what I had what we had as a sport had done wrong. Yeah, but Bob Steil, he was another merchandiser and knew how to tie that race boat into his business to get, you know, kind of get what he wanted. And uh, great influence on me, I will tell you that.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Yeah. Uh let's go to a driver here. Let's how about Chip Hanower?

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Chip. I never I never got to really get beyond Chip. You know, when I heard when he first came out with the I don't want to be the next Bill Muncie, I want to be the first Chip Hanower. That was kind of he was kind of a spokesman for drivers back when I was there. Uh he was great with the media, you know, uh, but always had like a lot of people around him and stuff. I never got as close to Chip as I did with many of the other drivers. Yeah, I got really close with Scott Pierce back in that those days, uh, you know, and uh helped him out immensely. His whole team stayed in my hotel room a few times, so you know, when they were going around with Bill Worser's book.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

But okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

I just never got close to Steve, like ever got close to Chip.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Okay, okay.

unknown 31:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Well, how about Scotty Pierce? Is that I mean that's that's one individual I was supposed to interview and unfortunately passed away. And I know he had a big, big heart around the sport. Do you have a good Scotty story?

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Well, the first time I well, I knew Scott when we were kids because my dad helped Laird Pierce with uh Parko or Ring Miss. By the way, I to this day, what is Parko spell backwards? It's old crap. Okay, that was the Jim Henry Phil Cole line on the radio network for five years. Okay, that was Laird Pierce's country company. Yeah, but I knew Scott as a kid with his big uh uh what do you call those uh black frame glasses and everything?

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Oh, like the rebands the same age, rebands, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

The reband, yeah. The yeah, he had these big black frame glasses and stuff, but yeah, he always wanted to be a race boat driver. And then when I got involved in that, he had somehow convinced Worcester to head east with that boat that he had that U8, and it was Scott, it was a guy named Randy Herb and uh Rusty, a big old uh golden retriever, and they took off cross country, didn't have a lick in their name. I mean, in Miami they stayed in my room, in Detroit, they stayed in my house, you know. So he uh that's what he wanted to do. It's all he ever wanted to do. Yeah, um, helped him helped him, you know, he got involved, then he started driving for Worcester, then he did the Alberto thing. Uh I was disappointed because I got him kind of involved with Jim Gilmore when I got Gilmore involved in the sport, the Indy Cart, the AJ Foint sponsor. Yeah, and Jim's wife, Susan, only wanted Scott Pierce to drive, and Scott bailed on us. I it was that we brought that boat from uh Mel Larson and campaigned it for the Gilmore special, and Steve Reynolds got in there, but Susan wanted Scott Pierce, and he didn't want to do it, and Jim Gilmore kind of went away. Um, and then I got back involved with Scott when he owned the Grand Prix. When I worked with the Grand Prix for three or four years, and um we had some good times and we had some not so good times, yeah. And uh it, you know, people are different, and we're at different phases of our life and stuff. But Scott was um bigger than he was bigger than life all the time. I can tell you that.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

Yeah, he was. He was. All right, a couple more, couple more for you. Steve David.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

I like Steve. Steve, um, you know, I was involved in a couple of his biggest setbacks. Um, that one gold cup race, uh, which I never have lived down, but man, Steve was an ambassador for the sport. I thoroughly enjoy working with him. He's very articulate, and uh, you know, I always had hoped he could do more television work and stuff like that because he was he's that he's a real estate trainer, sales guy, and knew how to handle people, knew how to work with he's the most popular guy in Madison, Indiana for how many years? Yeah, you know, yeah, and um I he had great years with us, and then you know, him and the day Vilwalk accidents and stuff, it was uh it was tough. Yeah, uh, but and he's a pretty intense, intense uh driver. You know, I I always felt bad because like he never won Doha. Something would always kind of happen. Remember the year he flipped it all the way to the room. Yeah, yeah, and he landed, yeah, you know, and um that was when we got into a big argument with uh the UIM attorney over the word shall or will. Something like the boat that crashes that will not be or shall not be or will not be. And we use the word, I forgot what the word so that Sammy from Qatar is like they can run in the race, they can continue racing because your rule doesn't say will not, it says shall not. And Steve was sitting there going, yeah, Sammy, yeah, Sammy, you know. She was helping, yeah. But uh, and then you know, I I I I wish I could have uh gotten more involved with him when he was um doing the um uh when he was took over, yeah, you know, after I left.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

Uh right, you know, but we talked and uh we reached several agreements on some stuff, you know, it was all it was it was amicable between he and I. And uh it was the probably the best thing he ever said to me was uh I don't know how you did it, you know, and uh because he didn't want to keep doing it. But Steve, great guy, yeah, and the sport, man, don't that's the problem with so many people in this sport, they don't keep them around. They you know they're not here, and you could use those guys to keep this work, make it bigger.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure. Yeah, since since Steve left, it's been kind of a rotating door on on who's running things, right? Yep, yeah. All right, last one on my list. When we started, go ahead. Oh, yeah. Uh last one on my list, Bill Osborne.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

You know, I'm in trouble. They just posted a picture on hydro history with Bill.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Um the photographer Jim Dunn, EK, Dave Spear, yeah.

Part Three Preview And Closing

SPEAKER_01 36:38

And I put a comment, I said, Who's the tennis pro? Because there's Bill in those friggin' short white tennis shorts, you know. Yeah, but oh man, you know, of all the people I've stayed in touch with and uh thoroughly enjoy is Bill, you know, and his wife Cheryl. Um that guy doesn't have blood, he has pens oil or something. You know, he's a hydroplane guy through and through and through and through. He knows the sport so so well, and um sometimes to a fault, you know, but uh in terms of you know, he's passionate. Bill's passionate about it, yeah. And uh I enjoy talking to him and trying to help him with some of the stuff that he's working on. He's still doing renderings and stuff to help try to get sponsors involved in the sport and everything, but man, there is like that's the Encyclopedia Britannica of the sport, not so much on who won what heat, who won what race, but who did this, where it was. You know, his photography has always been awesome, yeah. And um, he's been there. I mean, he used to do a lot of stuff for my dad back in the day, taking pictures. Uh I think he used to tell my dad, used to send him up in helicopters to take pictures of crowds. Oh that's how they would figure out how many people were at a race. Okay, and Bill would go up and fly around and come back with the pictures, yeah. And um, but oh, he has just been so involved with everybody, and I think I think he's actually been not gotten all the credit that he really deserves for what he does, right? Yeah, I really feel that way, yeah. Both as a professional and a photographer.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Oh, yeah, and he's a great person. Looking around my office here, I've got several pictures from his uh collection. Um, yeah, wonderful photographer. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, and he was a great, he was a great friend of my father's as well.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

So well, he's a great, you know, we we share a lot of stories. Yeah, we share a lot of stories. We talk about stuff, what could have been, what was, and he just has a his memory of everything, and the the details are just incredible.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

And I would love to share some more stories with you, but unfortunately, that's all the time we have for this week, Knuckleheads. Make sure you come back next week, as we'll have part three and the conclusion of my interview with Sam Cole. And that interview is going to really focus mainly around the time he had for that decade as commissioner of the sport of hydroplane racing, starting off with changing the name to A B R A, then changing it to what we now know it as is H1 Unlimited. So until the next episode's out, check us out online. We're on social media, Facebook, Instagram, or you can check our website out at rooschatelltalk.com. And you can also check out that Rooschel Talk Plus subscription package. For a small monthly donation, you get access to a lot of fun things on my website. Always get early access to all new episodes. You also get that monthly raffle prize drawing, as well as some other fun things along the way. So don't forget, come back next week for part three and the conclusion of my interview with Sam Cole. And until next time, I hope to see you at the races.