Episode 182: Jonathan Abbott: Part 2

The hardest part of hydroplane racing isn’t always the speed. Sometimes it’s deciding, in real time, what actually happened when eight boats hit the start, rooster tails erase sightlines, and a championship can swing on a single judgment call. In part 2 of the interview we sit down with Jonathan Abbott to get a clear, practical look at H1 Unlimited officiating from the chief referee’s chair and why “just call it on the water” is rarely as simple as it sounds.
If you care about H1 Unlimited hydroplane racing, boat racing rules, and how modern officiating balances fairness with speed, this conversation delivers. Subscribe, share this with a racing friend, and leave a review.

Episode 181: Jonathan Abbott, Part 1

Transcript

Rulebook Cleanup And New Start

SPEAKER_01 1:21

We're going to talk a little bit more about that and some other changes for each one unlimited disc racing season. And he'll discuss more about the challenges he faces as a referee for I think I think that's one of those tasks that I would not be able to handle. It's a very challenging position because you're making split second decisions that are really impactful to the sport. And it's not an easy job. So I'm just gonna tip my hat right now to Jonathan because uh that is such a challenging position to have. We can talk more about those challenges that he faces with the races and we'll talk a little about the future of the sport and where this can head uh and what other changes we might see. So again, if you haven't listened to part one, episode 181, drop down to the bio, and I highly recommend you listen to part one as we're gonna continue that talk with part two and my conclusion of the interview with Jonathan Abbott. So let's get back into that conversation. Was there any other changes in the rule book that uh are relevant for fans?

SPEAKER_00 2:27

No, not really. I think that was pretty much it. You know, I think that's really what we spent our whole offseason on was that procedure. Because that was the the biggest thing was before we started discussing starting procedure, we wanted to know from the board, okay, what direction are we going? Do you guys want to stay with fight for lanes, or are we gonna try the uh the predetermined lanes? So once that went in, well then like I said, it was just all about rewriting something. And you know, biggest thing that we you know, like or not biggest thing, but what we've done is is for this year we put it in as a competition directive. So it's in the rule book as a competition directive, so we're not rewriting the whole rule book this year, so that if for whatever reason it doesn't pan out and we say nope, we're not then you know what we scratch the competition directive and we're not rewriting the whole book again for like the third time in three years, right? So so that that was the that was kind of something that we decided we were gonna do just to because you know, like I said for three years I've been here and for you know three years we've been going through that rule book. And especially the last two years, um, you know, competition committee we spent, you know, uh not this offseason, but the last. Um that was a big thing. We went through every single line in that rulebook, you know, every crew chief. It was fun to see getting everybody together. Um, you know, those crew chiefs know that rulebook inside and out, you know. Um, so to get their feedback and to go through and you know, finding those those gray areas and those you know, duplicates, and you know, where different rules are contradicting each other. And so we were able to really clean it up and and move forward. So yeah, good. Well, hopefully there's lessons.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Yeah, sounds like it. Hopefully there's less loopholes. I know. Um, yeah, this like you said, crew chiefs know their rule books, and if there's anything they can exploit, um, you know, to get that advantage, it's just like aggressive driving, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:17

So exactly, right? And that's that's their job. And um, you know, like I've often said, um even with HRL, I've been with HRL now since uh for 12 12 years now. And you think even like say off we've been running 12 years, it'll be pre-assigned lanes, and you think you've put in a rule to cover every situation, and then every such every year some new situation happens that you never imagined possible, and then you gotta readjust the next year. Yeah, so um, you know, there's no way of covering every angle, right? So yeah, you know, we've gone through it this year. We've we've gone with a new starting procedure. If it works, great. You know what? I'll probably bet you that there's gonna be some flaw that we didn't think of, an angle that we didn't think of to cover, and we're you know, we're gonna have to adjust on the fly if need be, and then you know, regroup at the end of the season for sure. It's gonna happen. I'm I'm expecting it, it always does. Um, but I've just come to learn it. That that just comes with the comes with the sport.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say that it's gonna happen again and again. Uh it's just it's something that's always gonna happen. But I'm I'm glad to see some change uh with that because I think for the sport to evolve, change has to happen somewhere. So but was there anything in those meetings that someone wanted to push that didn't go as far?

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Um any wild wild theories or I don't I don't I don't think so. You know, there was no wild rules, it really came down to it. Uh was the starting procedure. You know, there was you know, your diehard driver, you know, like I said, it was really 50-50. You know, you you really had you know some drivers that really wanted to keep their fight for lanes, and then you had the drivers that wanted to go to pre-signed lanes. So, you know, that was the the biggest conf you know topic of conversation. So you know, that took up I'll say 99% of everything in this whole offseason. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

All right. Well, if if you had uh your way and could change anything in the rule book or add a rule or or or change something about about the rule book or or racing procedures, is there anything you would change or add?

Longer Qualifiers For Better Racing

SPEAKER_00 6:23

I I would say maybe a rule or something, but for me is and it's easy for me to say because I'm not the one um paying the bills on these machines, but I'd like to see four lap qualifiers instead of the three.

unknown 6:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

You know, I think for the fans, three laps goes all by awful quick. Um I've always, you know, just I brought it up and I understand the owners when it comes to budgets and stuff like that. But I've always liked to want to see some longer races. The H1s are often you know the main attraction, and they're not on the water often.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

You know, uh they're up two to three times a weekend. So, you know, and that extra lap I think could make make a difference, allow fans to to get to see the boats more out on the water and you know have more racing.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think anything we can do to have more time with boats on the water is beneficial. And maybe uh and maybe after the season they could see uh a little bit less wear and tear on the on the boats from the starting procedure. Maybe that could happen in the future. You never know.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Who knows? You know, we'll we'll we'll see about that one. But uh no, I'd say that, you know, I think the rule in itself, I I've always enjoyed, you know, I'm like I said, even though it made my life an absolute nightmare, I still enjoyed the the fight for lanes. I enjoyed the strategic aspect of it. You know, it's gonna make for great racing this year too with the assigned lanes, but you know, I've always kind of thought a four-lap race just would uh would be better for the fans.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Yeah, oh definitely. Definitely, definitely.

How Penalties Get Reviewed

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Well, I still want to talk about the rules and and uh and being ripp chief referee here. But uh one thing I know fans, especially the I don't know what you call them, but the people behind the keyboards on social media always like to um point out that not you can't always make the calls instantaneously on the water. Um it doesn't always happen. I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of channels that go through once you see a penalty um enforcing that and then getting it to the teams, getting it to the fans. Um can you talk about that process? Because not so much for the past few years, but I mean, there's been I think before you were chief referee, there's been was quite a few years at Seafair where the the final eight happened and the winner wasn't who we thought it was on the water. And it was kind of a continuous strain, but things have gotten tighter with that, and I I'm not griping about it, but I want to get more from your perspective. What goes through that process on making a penalty and calling on the water and then getting that order finished correct?

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Yeah, I mean, I know there's that often uh there's a lot of talk, and I know uh Dave Vilwalk's been one to really push on it about having the boat that crosses start-finish line first is your actual winner. Um I find it's tough because and I'll explain to it is yes, I have the drones live feed. Um, you know, and I'm fortunate to have drones, you know, uh in my era, right? The chief referees that were before me that didn't have drones that were going based off of you know turn judges and helicopters and using GoPros. Like, I mean, hats off to them because for sure, you know, there's no way uh you can always get the right call. You know, drones is the ultimate tool, there's no arguing with it. Um so the way I always and when I approached um H1, you know, they used to have one lap penalties, and then they used to make the call while the boats were on the water. Um my two cents on that was from my experience with HRL, is even with the drones, um how can I say going back and taking the time to review the incident and making sure you make the right call for me was more important than trying to make a call on the fly and then making the wrong decision. Um so that's kind of what you know. I always try to take the time at the end of the race to review every aspect because you know, especially in a limited z boats are going so fast, you know, they gotta have minimum width between the boats. You know, we want to I want to make sure I get the call right. And I understand there's that aspect of we want the winner to be the winner across the start finish line. But unfortunately, I just feel that that's always been a part of the sport, even before drones, right? It was always after the race that we found out if there was called or not. Very rarely did we know during the race, um, you know, and even in other sports like F1, we see it too after the race, so-and-so got you know 30 second penalty, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

If we're taking the time to review it, um my biggest thing is I'm trying to get it done as quick as possible. And I think um my track record so far, I mean, we can discuss um uh Tri-Cities what what went down there. Um, that's kind of a different angle to it, but I'm trying to get my calls out within five minutes. And um, as soon as the race is over, if I have a doubt, I'm trying to get to Brad and he's on our radios. I have you know Nick Cash, and I'm gonna say race is under review. So at least he can inform the fans that hold up, we're under review, and then I want to get it done as quick as possible.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

And then once my calls are made, but here's where my two cents worth is once I've made the race official, that's it. I'm not going back, right? So if I made a mistake, well then you know that's part of it. You know, even with the replays, you know, we've had situations where you know I've gone back at the night at the hotel and I've when you're in the moment and you're under pressure sometimes. I find that you know, even though you got the instant replay, but you got that pressure, you want to get it done quick. And the versus when you're sitting at the hotel with a beer and you relax and all of a sudden you start looking at it from a different angle. It's happened a few times I went, oh shit, you know, like you know, maybe I should have made the call, I shouldn't have made the call. Yeah, but I always stand is once I've made it official, I'm not turning back. And that's the way it's gonna be. Because I know in the past we've seen you know, podiums, you know, drivers getting handed trophies and then finding out the next day, well, no, finally, there was a penalty, and you know, I don't want that. I want to make sure that once it once I've made the race official, it's official, unless we're talking about uh post-race inspections, which I mean that's that's a whole other game, right? There's nothing that can be that's out of my control, but I want to make sure that I get the call done as quick as possible, but I need the time to review. And again, going back to three laps, and we'll start for call fine, like that goes by real quick. Like, I can't have the time to start doing a video replay in the middle of the race because then I'm gonna miss something. And you know, especially in the past years with the fight for lanes, like I said, bolts are cut in the course, you know, through the middle, from the backstretch, from the front stretch, trying to keep an eye on everybody was was dang near impossible. Yeah, you know, I had two officials with me who who were fantastic, who you know were a great set of eyes, but you can't without taking the time to review it to make sure everything gets done right. You know, there's sometimes you see it with your eyes, and I'm going, oh, they're the call for sure. And then no, as you start to go in slow motion, you realize it. Oh, no, finally it was fine, right? Yeah, or in other situations, you know, someone gets cut off, you don't notice it. Um so I understand we're fans as a fan, we want that first boat to cross, but I just feel for me, I'd rather take an extra five minutes and make sure the call gets done right than to rush a call and then you know, uh make the wrong wrong decision while trying to make a uh a quick judgment in the middle of a race. So, you know, even it's in a five five lap final. Like I said, boats are spread out, and you know, I just don't believe in it. I don't think it's the right decision. I'd rather take the time to make sure that I make the right decision.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And you know, looking at that footage, I'm sure it's it's hard to to judge. I mean, you see the the wakes of the water and the buoys, but there's no chalk board of lines for each lane. So um exactly. It's hard to dissect everything, and I think fans need to realize it's also judgment calls. Um and I I I watch a lot of football. Uh I don't know if you watched a lot of the NFL or not from your area, but um insta replay happens uh you know quite frequently during the during the game. Um and uh you know take your personal uh biases out of it, right? It's it can be hard to do that as well um as a fan, but you know, uh you can see the same footage and see a different result.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

So exactly, yeah. Right, it's all again, depending on the moment and how you're looking at it. You know, like I said, uh when it's the gold cup on the line, and I gotta make sure I get a decision and still get it out quickly to sit at the hotel with a beer in my hand, it's a whole different perspective. Yeah, you know, yeah. Um and it and even in every sport, I look at it and I always like to, you know, uh they're more and more in some replay. We're looking at it now in baseball with their new strike system and how many ABS and how many umpires you know are getting called out because they're missing so many strikes or balls, and you know, um you know, hockey was my my best example was a few years back when we had Colorado versus Tampa Bay um in the Stanley Cup final, and I believe it was Tampa Bay scored the game-winning goal in overtime, and it had six guys on the ice. They have all the technology on the world, and they still miss that call. So even if we do have all these drones, and even if I have all this great, you know, the great stuff is still gonna get missed from time to time, and I keep saying it. But for me, like I said, it's I want to I give myself I'll try to do it within a five-minute window. And then once I've officially said race official, that's it. You know, even if a driver rep comes with me at the end of the day and we look at a footage and he shows, oh look, and you know what? I missed it or something, I made a bad call, I'll say that's on me. But I'm not I'm not changing back my call. It's it's it stays fork, and that's what we're saying.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, I think as a fan, I appreciate you know that that five-minute window, knowing who the winner is, and it's staying that um as as much as you can, because it's um there's been several races at Seafair before you were there. We think you know, this person won, go home, and the next morning you look on your Facebook feed or whatever, and oh, actually this other person won.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Um, so so you know it was different times then too. I know um, you know, they used to use their GoPros. They used to use GoPro footage for for calls, but then they had to wait for the the the GoPro to get back to the truck and then they load the videos and then the referee looked at the videos, but right that turnaround time is long, right? So but like I said, I'm I'm fortunate with the technology I have in this day and age with the drones, uh, to be able to make make those decisions in quicker times.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Yeah, and there's times where those GoPros wouldn't make it back, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Might fall off the boat or break or whatever. Yeah. So it sounds like the technology is just over the past 10 to 20 years to just have grown leaps and bounds uh in your favor.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Oh yeah, for sure.

Tech Upgrades That Change Officiating

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Um, you know, technology is is our is our best friend once we're not in this sport. You know, we're even looking into uh possibly for next season into um uh what what's the word I'm looking for? A track as a time lap system. Right now, currently we're it's it's all human person uh lapping everybody, right? And then we're starting to look into an actual uh lapper. Um you know, F1 tunnel boats are using it, so we're starting to okay. Um yeah, F1 has that um for water. I know it's always been the argument is you need two fixed points for the you know the GPS to go through, and then on the water it's not always easy, right? Because you have a your starting line, but in the middle of the water you can't have that fixed point. Um, so it's always been tough to get that, and we're working towards that. Um you know this new the new hydro town group is is putting they're doing everything they can to make this board better, you know. So, you know, technology's there, they're trying to utilize it, and the more we utilize it just makes my job easier at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Yeah, yeah. Well, I would be fantastic if you could use that. I mean, a lot of benefits um for data and statistics, but um, I race a lot of radio controlled boats and cars and uh and the cars, that's that's big to have on the starting line, the starting grid. Uh and then you can see your lap times and see how you're improving and whatnot. Um, but I wouldn't could make uh the start's a no-brainer if you if you're behind it, you know. Then well, that's it, exactly. Yeah, well, excellent. Do you know if that would be how are the tunnel boats doing that? Is there a line above the water?

SPEAKER_00 19:27

I I I'm not sure how that works, I'll be honest. I know the technology's there. Um I haven't started had a chance to look into it. You know, I I know I wanted to, I know we've we've got a contact, uh, you know, then I think we're even supposed to have a meeting this this coming week uh to open the discussions on that. If not, I was gonna try to have a discussion with Dylan, uh Dylan Runny, who has his has his own F1 tunnel boat on what they were using and start opening conversations and looking into it and see what it implies, what it costs, and you know what is what is necessary.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Yeah, cool, very cool. Oh, and hope and if that works, hopefully it's something that could be uh reflected right away to the fans, you know, be up there. It's fun to I always like to see this the the stats and the speeds and the the times.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

So for sure fantastic always fun to have.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Yeah, yeah. All

Tri-Cities Gold Cup Review Breakdown

SPEAKER_01 20:22

right. Um so you you you briefly mentioned that that the tri-cities last year. Um can you talk a little bit about that? And is there been any other steps to you know, hopefully make sure that doesn't happen again?

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Um there was a few things that that that happened. Um, first and foremost, um you know, it the the biggest uh issue was was the start, right? We didn't know what jumped a gun or not. It was the the first two boats, the strong boats were were the evident ones. Um what had happened though is we had lost because of the the two first jumpers, we lost Dave and we lost Jamie in the rooster tails.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Yeah, they were chucked in there, right? Yeah, they're all right.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

So on our camera, we couldn't see where they were situated. Yeah. But we had to really dig deep and you know start looking through the rooster tails. And you know, um, we were fortunate that we had a drone that was above the starting line, which is something that we're gonna put in place for this year. I always want that drone at the starting line, and having to see who was where at the start, and that's what took so long. Um and then you know, through that whole process came the whole I don't want to say debacle of somehow on the docs, someone said that the U11 had won. Um but from our standpoint it never came from us. I know that for a fact because I never made an official call. I know that for a fact. Yeah, um, so what happened there? Who knows? And then you know, the part that whole celebration started, and then you know. Finding out that you know Brad knew that we were under review. And then, you know, they the media team not knowing on the docs, they thought he'd won, they started doing the driver's interview and it just so yeah, they things got a control. Um so we're we're definitely since that event, you know, with the media team, um, you know, we've really worked to tighten down on that to make sure that situation never happens again because um, you know, a a it's unfortunate for that whole U11 team, right? To to think that you've just won the gold cup and have that ripped away from you like it did is is definitely not fun. And for the image of the of our of our team, it wasn't great. Um but we're taking you know big steps forward, you know. Uh um working with Jenik, who was the newest hire last year, also from HRL. You know, I spent uh you know the last 12 years working with her, uh working with Nikish and the whole uh media team to make sure that that doesn't happen again. Um just putting more emphasis on trying to determine the gun jumpers quicker. But like I said, it was just uh just one of those things that because of the way the gun jumpers were, we couldn't see the two bullets on the inside, which were Dave and Jamie. Um so once that was figured out, you know, then we were able to make the decision. But like I said, unfortunately, I'm still not sure how the information got to the dock that the U11 and won, but you know, like just took that one person to say, Oh, you won, and then you know, unfortunately, yeah. No, like I said, everyone just kind of lost control from there.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Yeah. Yeah, it's unfortunate. I mean, I you know, it's I've heard, you know, maybe miss mishearing or whatnot, but um I'm glad to hear that you're gonna have a drone over the start line. So hopefully maybe that's changing the starting procedure. You can share that transfer some of your resources to other areas um that are more crucial for it.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Because, you know, I always have a drone in turn one and turn two. We had a rover drone, which was watching the pits, because like I said, the pits was so crucial, right? And we have three drones, which you know, which was enough, you know. At some point, I can't start having five, six, seven drones out there. Just based on manpower and you know, once we're not those drones aren't uh aren't aren't cheap. Um, so that's where the emphasis was. But I think now the fact that we don't need to be watching right off the dock uh as closely, then you know I can focus that drone more on the starting line, making sure at the start so that I can pinpoint you know exactly who's where at a certain moment, you know, if I can sort of match it up with my my my video saying, okay, well he's here, and then we can match it with the drone and we'll get a better idea of who's where from being higher up. And uh I think I think we can you know make a make a quicker decision. I'll be honest with you, in the last three years, that's the one time it's happened that we've had a hard time, you know, it all depends on the situation, right? And it just had to happen right during the gold cup, and you know, two, three gun jumpers and we lose both in the spray, it just had to happen at that moment, right? But yeah, you know, that's just the way it goes.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

And for us as a team, you know, we as an as the H1 officials and on the media team, it was a learning experience, and um, you know, we learn from it, and uh we'll just make sure it doesn't happen again.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Yeah, I mean that's that's all you can do is learn from those rare situations what happens and and try to improve upon your product.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

Yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Yeah, and yeah, like you said, unfortunately it just happened to happen. Final heat of the gold cup.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Exactly, right? It couldn't have been, you know, just you know, a San Diego where you know the championship was already decided and everything's got no cool no, I had to be the gold cup, you know. It was nice to see Dave get that that that win, but you know, I think it would have just been nice to uh to have it you know finish a little smoother.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Yeah. Well, just try to improve upon the next time.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Yeah, exactly.

Tough Calls And Public Criticism

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Well, I want to go back to a comment you made earlier, like you said there's been some times where um you've had conversations with people about calls and maybe you maybe uh you have a different perspective on that. Um is there has there been any calls that has haunted you that you want to talk about or or maybe not talk about? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Um I've got no issue. Uh haunt me. No, I've I've actually been um good to to turn the next page. Um, you know, there has been calls that have been heartbreaking to make, so to speak. Um yeah, yeah. Because of the situation. I think so far in in unlimited, it hasn't been too bad. You know, there hasn't been those heartbreaking calls. Um, I've had a few with HRL, you know. Um one example I uh we had was uh in GP. Um we were down to the final. It was between Jimmy King and Brandon Kennedy. I believe they were tied, or there was one point uh separating the two. And so basically whoever finished ahead of the one or the other in the final was gonna get the uh was gonna get the win, and Jimmy King cuts the course in the wrong spot.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

And it's like in the back of my mind, it's like, all right, I gotta make the call, but it's like I've got to make a call in a situation that's not even relevant to the race in essence, right? And it was just kind of like one of those moments, you know, damn, I'm gonna make it. And then you know, Brandon ends up stalling in the warm-up, and that kind of nullified everything. So you know it kind of made it made my call because so you know Jimmy still end up wins the championship. Yeah, but you know, it's just those calls that it's it's heartbreaking to make, but you gotta make them, right? Yeah, yeah. You know, same thing with this year. I had a driver in the warm-up period who was in the trying hunt for the championship at Bournemouth this year. I wasn't outside an house at a course marker during the warm-up period, you know, after calling. It's part of the rules. Yeah, unfortunately, it didn't have an impact on the race, right? During the warm up period, the pre didn't change anything, but it's like, you know, I gotta make the call, and you know, it ruins his chance for the high points, but damn day calls gotta be made. Yeah, but um, you know, like I said, those are those they're those those tough calls. There's no call, it's fun. I never take pleasure in making any call. You know, I think uh, you know, we can say the keyboard warriors seem to think that sometimes uh us officials like to pick on certain drivers or we give us special favors to certain drivers. Um that's never the case, you know. Um it's never been my case, anyways. Like I said, I can speak for myself. I don't know any other official, I've never really known any of the officials that take pride in ruining someone's weekend. No, but um but for me, you know, I call what I gotta call, and you know, sometimes it's it's well, it's never fun. I never like I say it's never a fun time to have to have to call anybody uh in any circumstance, whether it's it's it's a blatant call or or you know, really tough decision to make, yeah. It's never fun. Yeah. But yeah, it's gotta be done. Right, Spanish gotta do that job, and you know I take it and it's fine with it. And you know, I'm able once the raise days over, I'm able to turn the page and move on from it, you know. Um but never a fun, never fun situation.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

No, no, especially those those penalties, like you said, like driving around outside course marker. Um, I'm sure you're probably thinking to yourself, why the hell did you do that? Why are you making me call this right now? Yep. All right. Well, is there is there a rate of site for I want to hear from HRL and each one? Like, what's the toughest site to judge at and to referee at? I mean, every it's not the same. You know, facilities, layout. I mean, think about Tri-Cities, that sun is glaring on the left side at the end of the day. Um which sites are the hardest and and why?

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Um for for for HRL, I'd say there's the two tough ones. I'd say for for us, it's the beginning one in Cambridge. Um the drivers are not gonna put it um well, the course is so far away from the judges stand. Okay, so it makes it tough to see, yes, we got the drones, but it's still it's still tough with the boats being so far out. Um and then the second one, uh toughest one on the HRL is definitely Valleyfield, right? Um, it's such a tight course. We got one corner that's nice and wide, and we got a second corner that's extremely tight. And there's always those calls that are bearing out in turn two that are just some are easy, some aren't, you know. And then you just add the pressure valley field in itself all together. Um, you know, I would definitely say that that's that's a tough one. Um in terms of H1, uh, I guess because of the tight course, also, you know, Madison's never easy, you know, and it's always when it comes to the corners, it's always tough, right? Guys are having a hard time holding special lane one, it's extremely hard, right? Um, you know, uh, but because of the drones, you know, we got great drones, you know, it kind of makes it easier. I've always got a nice view on turn one and turn two. Um, you know, Gunnersville wasn't easy because with the boats all the way at the other end. I'll be honest, you Alabama was never easy, also, right? Not having uh the drone couldn't necessarily get far enough. So I was always looking at a distance of boats leaving the pit. Oh coming down from so far down and having to make sure nothing and where did they enter the course? That kind of always made it tough, right? That that race off the dock was always uh difficult in in Gunnersville for sure.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Okay, yeah. Well, you don't have to worry about that one anymore, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

All right.

Highlights And Future Race Sites

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Well, what's been the highlight of doing all this work? I mean, it's it's kind of a thankless job, I would say. I mean, but yeah, what what what what's been the highlight of of being a referee for all these years?

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Um, you know, I think a big highlight for me, you know, uh getting hired for H1, you know, for me was probably a huge highlight, you know, um, being a kid from the East Coast of Valley Field.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Um you know, never dreamt it, you know. I guess racers say you always dreamed to become an H1 driver, GP driver. Um, to get that honor, to be the first Canadian ever. The chief referee also is a pretty cool, cool feat. Um, you know, and then another big honor this year, HRL honored me as the ambassador of the year also. Oh wow. Uh this year. Yeah. So for me that was that was a nice recognition, right? I don't do this for the accolades, but the recognition from them um is huge. Um, because once we're not without this league, then you know, I'm part of the board of directors also. So without HRL, without everything that we've developed, um, I would never have gotten to H1. You know, you know, they we we built that platform and it allowed me to grow as an official and to stand out, so to speak, to to allow myself to have the opportunity to be hired. So I'd say those those are the two big uh for sure highlights in terms of officiating in in my career.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Yeah, that's a that's a big accomplishment um to get ambassador for HRL HRL for the year. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Was not was not expecting that. So no, it was a it was a nice uh nice little award to get. You know, uh we put so much time into these events, you know, the drivers put in a lot of money and time, but you know, in terms of the board of directors with HRL and the officiating with a lot of off-season meetings, just you know, each one's the same thing, right? Yeah, there's a lot of work that gets put on behind the scenes that a lot of fans don't realize. And um, you know, but that's just part of the job, and you know, it's a it's my passion, so it's never really a job, yeah, in essence. So, but uh no, those are those are for sure my two top uh moments so far uh in my my officiating career.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Fantastic, fantastic. Well, I that's why I like having these conversations because the rate racing season is so short for the summertime, and so much work is being done on the off-season, which I'm glad. Hopefully, I can shed some light onto this for other fans and people to get better understanding of that. Well, we we talked about how Gunnerville is out. Um, unfortunately, it's down to four races. And with those talks behind closed doors. I'm hoping you can uh maybe share some rumors or gossip about uh any work as I know work's being done to get more sites, but what can you share with the public now about that?

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Like I said, I know Daryl Strong has been putting in a lot of work trying to get insights. Um, you know, uh there's one that has been in the talks of quad cities. Um apparently is is is coming really close. Um there's been a few. Uh was it quad cities? Is it Iowa? I'm not even sure.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Iowa maybe yeah, maybe it was Iowa, yes, Iowa.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Maybe it is Iowa. I'm not yeah, I don't know my my geography, my US geography, but um okay that I know is work in progress. Um I know there was talks with Decatur at one point. Don't know where that's led to. Um, you know, I know Daryl, without mentioning names, says he's got some other sites he's working on. So he's he's pushing his butt. I think he's trying to aim for six for next year. I'm gonna keep fingers crossed. That would be nice. Um, you know, unfortunately, I'm probably gonna disappoint a lot of people, but you know, Detroit's not looking so good.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

No.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

I think there was a an email there, I think uh a post that came out on Facebook not too long ago, also.

unknown 36:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

I think it was a failure that posted there, anyways. You know, unfortunately, um that's not looking too too good with now the the area and everything getting sold for condos, and yeah, it's just not not looking good, unfortunately. So as much as I know every year we get the the question is Detroit coming back, is Detroit coming back? I just don't think it's gonna happen, unfortunately. Yeah, as much as I enjoyed it. I you know, I was I got to officiate there uh two or three years with HRL with the GPs.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

We're there, you know. That was a cool event, too. You know, I can maybe say that was another um top moments of my fishing career at the time. My dad was uh a turn judge for H1. Oh, okay. So uh yeah, he was uh he was in Detroit as a as the H1 turn judge, and I was there as uh as the HRL chief referee. So you know, being able to share that moment with him at that weekend, even though we had our own uh each had our own jobs, it was a it was a cool experience for sure to share. Um, but yeah, it it's unfortunately not looking good for for Detroit. But like I said, I know Quad Cities was was is the closest one to probably a newest site. Okay, and as for the others, like I said, the cater I've heard been thrown around. Is the potential still there? I don't know, like I said. Um so yeah, um there there is hope. I know Daryl's working on it trying to find these new sites to uh for H1 for sure.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

That's great, that's great. Yeah, and I I would love for us to go back to Evansville and Detroit and some of the other power, you know, places on the circuit that we had. Um, especially I'm gonna be selfish. I've never got a chance to be in Detroit and see the race there. But oh really, you know, but the the world's changed, right? It's not the same as it was 10, 20, 50 years ago. And you know, and unfortunately, I don't think we're gonna be able to go back to some of these premier sites that we had, and I'm glad to see that you're looking elsewhere to find somewhere that's suitable for GP and H1 racing. Um unfortunately we can't be like NASCAR and build a track out and buy some land and do that, but uh it's gotta be a shared space.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

HRO, we've we've jokingly had that conversation before of like, is there not some landowners that we could build a stadium, you know, like a a Miami stadium or you know, like the Dayton, Ohio, right? The high school bowl that was built for that, right? Um, you know, we've always jokingly kind of said, is there not somewhere where we could buy and you know host a race every month or you know, every two, three weekends, right? But yeah, unfortunately, um I just don't think it's it's possible.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Yeah. And H1's definitely not ever going back to Valleyfield.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

That's yeah, no, I I don't yeah, I doubt that very much. And if they were, it would be like a one-board demonstration, you know. Um yeah, I was in the grandstands then when that when that happened, um when they actually raced, and it you know, it was tight. And then when Dave Vilwalk lost the skid fin and ended up beaching it right near the campground, I think that was just the cherry on a Sunday for them, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

It's just yeah, it's too small. Yeah, yeah. Very, very small. All right. Well, we've we've talked covered a lot of stuff about you know what's been changing and and improvements for H1 and whatnot. But what are you excited about this year? I know you you got a busy schedule ahead of yourself with HRL and H1. What's what are some things that are exciting for you for the 2026 season?

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Um, you know, I HRL, I'm just looking forward to yet another season. Um, you know, always fun to to get out there, especially for me, uh, as much as HRL with H1, to get back with the group. Um, you know, it becomes your second family once you're not, from the racers to the officials, you know, especially the officials. Um obviously H1, I don't see them as often, just people being from all across the continent once we're not. We see each other on Zoom meetings, and that's about it. So being able to get back with the gang is always what I'm looking forward to. Um looking forward to Valleyfield finally getting some finals. I mean, we've been we've been skunked for the last two years. Um, so I'm hoping that we can finally get those prestigious finals back in and have another competitive season. And each one, well, you know, like I've been saying before, I think the level of of competition this year is just gonna be outstanding. Hopefully, you know, we can get a lot of these boats out there, you know, get more than six boats at an event. You know, we'll be more than last year for sure. Um, and just looking forward to a great year of competition. I'm looking forward to seeing how this new starting procedure is gonna work and just having a great safe season, putting emphasis on the word safe season, and uh everybody come back in one piece and uh let's have some great races.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Yeah, that's number one right there. Safe. Have a great show on the water, but let's have everyone be safe. All right, yeah, for sure. Well, before before I let you go, is there anything else that you want to share with the fans to let them have a better understanding of about H1 officiating?

SPEAKER_00 41:19

Um, you know, I covered a lot of it. I think we you know asked some great questions. You know, uh it's a work in progress. H1, we're working immensely. I think um since I've joined uh three years ago, we've we've come leaps and downs, you know, step forward um in terms of of the group, in terms of you know the live stream. I know live stream had a lot of struggles this year, but H1 has put in the work again to make sure that the product is even better than last year. So I'm confident in that. You know, it's patience, you know. I I know fans are diehard fans in terms of officiating, you know. Um I I those keyboard warriors and you know, the people with the opinions, I I'll never I'm never there to please people, you know. I get chuckles out of watching everybody, but you know, at the end of the day, I'm there to do a job. It's nothing personal against anybody. That's my biggest thing. Um in my life. I've always, if someone has always said I've played favoritism against somebody, that's always something that's always gone on my nerves. If you want to, if you want to tick me off in terms of uh when we're having conversations, tell me I've done some favoritism with somebody and that'll get me going. But um, you know, it it's enjoy the show this year. You know, we're working hard, you know, we're not sitting back just doing nothing. This the whole committee from the board, the competition to all the officials. Uh, we're we're putting in a lot of work, even like I said, the um the live stream team, they've been putting in a lot of hours trying to regroup and be better than last year. Um, you know, and and everybody's working to try to put the best possible product on the water for uh for the fans.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

Fantastic. Well, I'm really excited and looking forward to seeing H1 back on the water this year and um having some great races. And I really appreciate your time, Jonathan. Uh, I know you're a busy guy and uh yeah, I appreciate you coming on here to talk about hydros.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Well, thank you very much. Thanks for having me. It was it was a true pleasure. And anytime I get to uh discuss boat racing is always uh always a great day.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

That's right. That's right. All right, well, thank you, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

All right, thank you very

Host Wrap-Up And Testing Weekend

SPEAKER_00 43:30

much.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

Well, Knuckleheads, once again, we're out of time. I really hope you enjoyed my interview with Jonathan Abbott. He gave us some great insight to somewhat more of what's going on behind the scenes with H1 Unlimited. And not only that, what happens with beef refereing uh with the referees for H1? And I know it's it's a thin this position don't quite always understand the process that goes on. Around being a referee. So hopefully this gives you a little bit more insight to what this entails. So thank you again, Jonathan. Look forward to seeing you at the races this year. And really appreciate all you do for the sport of hydroplane racing. Well, fans, uh, we have got a busy weekend coming up. We've got the first outing for H1 Unlimited this year over in Tri Cities, Washington. They're going to have their annual spring testing session, which looks like it's going to be a pretty packed pit so there's going to be a lot of boats there. I'm excited to see uh at least eight H1 Unlimited hydroplanes there. I'm really excited to see the GPs. There's going to be several teams there testing. It's going to be a fun day on the water. Uh both H1 Unlimited and Grand Prix American Hydroplanes will be represented there in the Tri-Cities. It's going to be a free show. Hopefully, we'll see you over there at the races. Um, if so, please stop and say hi. I love talking with the fans and everyone around the sport. Uh, a lot of made a lot of friends over the years, and I'm excited to see some people that I've known for well, my whole life, or uh just in the past couple years I've met through this podcast. So, really looking forward to this weekend and seeing the boats back out on the water once again. Uh, and I guess this means summertime is approaching. So, awesome news for boat racing fans. Well, in the meantime, check us out on social media. We're on Facebook, Instagram, check us out online at roostertelltalk.com. Don't forget to check out that Rooster Tell Talk Plus subscription service where we get early access to new episodes, monthly raffle drawings, lots of other fun prizes along the way as well. But that's all I got for you today. So until next time, I hope to see you at the races.